Phac why dont you do some research on the subject and it will be alot clearer to you then if you have any questions i am sure some one will able to answer them for you.
Fort Meade34 Bartow10
- Thread starter Prep101
- Start date
rat...I have served on FHSAA advisory committees...look, now you made me pull rank and I'm trying to not make this the case...the point is this: if you think someone is cheating, you should shut up. If you have proof someone is cheating, you should contact your AD who should contact the FHSAA. To make blanket statements that "private schools cheat" is absolutely irresponsible...just as irresponsible as saying "public schools cheat"...turn in what you have and I assure you the FHSAA will handle it - public or private...but, if you don't have anything, quit crying...especially while hiding in the protective custody which is 1A. Rat, maybe I know you...when did you serve on an FHSAA advisory committee? Maybe we served together?
Ah, so the guy who made the post is from Ft. Meade. He is saying he is glad they don't have to play the Trinity's CCC's, TC's, American Heritage's of the world. In that aspect Phac I think that guys statement is valid. They just came from 3A and now they are glad they are not playing those teams.
Ft. Meade had to play Tampa Catholic and Berkeley Prep every year for the past few years. Tampa Catholic has the #1 WR in America according to Rivals, and one of the top running backs in America on a roster that is close to 50. Berkeley Prep features a star-studded roster that includes Jacob Mathas and regularly has TB Buccaneer Coaches helping them run their program. Heck their QB is the TB OC's son, and they also have Greg Schiano's kid there!
If Ft. Meade was in 3A, they'd have to play TC/BP/LCS. Then, they'd need to play one of those schools again, and then play Trinity Christian. The Miners are a tough program..and against one or two of the powerful private schools, they can compete and win; however, when it's every week going against top talent, it wears them out which is what happened the past few years.
I'm all for Ft. Meade and Frostproof being in 1A and sprinkling in ONE private school here and there.
If Ft. Meade was in 3A, they'd have to play TC/BP/LCS. Then, they'd need to play one of those schools again, and then play Trinity Christian. The Miners are a tough program..and against one or two of the powerful private schools, they can compete and win; however, when it's every week going against top talent, it wears them out which is what happened the past few years.
I'm all for Ft. Meade and Frostproof being in 1A and sprinkling in ONE private school here and there.
Jess... everyone talks about how good Craig is... and while I think he will be a great college WR what has he done on the high school level to earn those accolades other than have good showings in camps combines and 7 on 7's... Your old school too so its a shame your falling for the hype. even in 2004 you had to prove you were the top guy on the field not in shorts and T shirts. Nate has not done that. He will still have a fine college career but he has not earned his high school accolades.
I can only go based off 2 games I saw him. I thought he was darn impressive looking. I was in flat out awe of him when I stood next to him last Friday. He's a 7-7 hero though, I agree. I was also impressed with #11 Noah Carlson. I think Tampa Catholic was smacked not because they aren't a very strong 3A team, but because CCC is that freakin' good!
But the point remains, it's not fair for a Ft. Meade/Frostproof type team to have to compete against those guys week in and week out.
But the point remains, it's not fair for a Ft. Meade/Frostproof type team to have to compete against those guys week in and week out.
Phac-I don't believe I was crying,whining,or calling anyone "cheaters". We all know public and private both take transfers...recruit, beg,and whatever they have too to get the kids they want. It is what it is...call it what u want! I'm from a small community...small public school. I personally prefer the small town vs small town,with an occasional small public vs big public. It's about a community coming together to support the kids,the school,and the town...with a little smack talked. If I'm not working out of state,I go to the championships every yr...1a-4a. The yrs I've been,small public schools trounced all the privates in attendance. Only school I seen that was close was glades day. I enjoy the atmosphere almost as much as the game. Hope this clarifies me being "whiny "
That explains a lot Phac, I wondered why it was so hard for you understand what we are talking about, As for the rules the FHSAA broke there on rule when they allowed 3 schools to come into 1A . The FHSAA said that the enrollment had to be 600 or less and then then 4 years later the FHSAA said it was fair and equable to allow those teams in so if any rule was broken it was by the FHSAA not the schools that where allowed in . I never said anyone was cheating and i never will.
Notice 2 key statements in bold Jess...
So 1 either you just think he is an attractive young brother LMAO! or really he only LOOKED the part but when the game actually started didn't do much... Yeah he has the build and body of a D1 athlete and he will be one for sure. Probably be pretty darn good but as far as a high school star he hasn't shown me much. Tay Scott and George Campbell's accolades make his look like chump change.
Also wish I knew you were there I stopped by towards the end of the 3rd.
http://www.tampabay.com/hometeam/blog/fhsaa-formally-investigates-tampa-catholic-after-s/19972/
It seems that maybe the Ft Meade fans could be referring to this Phac.
It seems that maybe the Ft Meade fans could be referring to this Phac.
Peezy,
He looks like he's been shaving longer than my husband and he's 31! He's impressive to look at on the football field, in pads. He looks huge and fast.
I think part of the problem with peoples perception of Tampa Catholic (I admit, I bit) is that BCP has, essentially, their entire roster listed as a D-1 prospect. The media (BCP, TBO, independent websites) has a long and documented history of really promoting TC football in Summer as an unbeatable football program..so don't even schedule them or you'll lose by 50 and then we'll write a 5 paragraph essay on how dumb you are for trying. I buy into that all the time when it comes to TC football, sadly.
Captains Morgan also posted a link to the FHSAA investigation of Tampa Catholic. The FHSAA had TC dead in the water, hook- line- sinker and somehow it gets swept under the rug and is never really looked into again.
I'm more impressed with Tyler King at Ft. Meade than Nate Craig.
He looks like he's been shaving longer than my husband and he's 31! He's impressive to look at on the football field, in pads. He looks huge and fast.
I think part of the problem with peoples perception of Tampa Catholic (I admit, I bit) is that BCP has, essentially, their entire roster listed as a D-1 prospect. The media (BCP, TBO, independent websites) has a long and documented history of really promoting TC football in Summer as an unbeatable football program..so don't even schedule them or you'll lose by 50 and then we'll write a 5 paragraph essay on how dumb you are for trying. I buy into that all the time when it comes to TC football, sadly.
Captains Morgan also posted a link to the FHSAA investigation of Tampa Catholic. The FHSAA had TC dead in the water, hook- line- sinker and somehow it gets swept under the rug and is never really looked into again.
I'm more impressed with Tyler King at Ft. Meade than Nate Craig.
Phac, it seems that you like to ask questions and make statements. Earlier you said if anyone had anything they should turn it in. It seems that has happened in the Tampa Catholic case only to see it ignored. Maybe you forgot about that I'm not sure, since you didn't address the link I provided. We're you off that day they investigated them?
You boys get your feelings hurt awfully easy, don't you? Here is a link...does this link count?
http://highschoolbuzz.blog.pbgameti...ol-with-38000-fine-for-recruiting-violations/
http://highschoolbuzz.blog.pbgameti...ol-with-38000-fine-for-recruiting-violations/
Calling a team an all star team alludes to a gathering of players from various places...all star players...the insinuation is recruiting which is cheating
Rat, do you know the difference between a rule and a policy? I suspect that you don't actually want to discuss this matter because you are a 1A guy...you are defensive because you think playing in a division without certain teams somehow lessens what you guys accomplish...but that's not what I'm saying at all...all I'm saying is private schools, like the ones Jessica and I approve, should be allowed in as well
First and foremost, let's clear something up. If a small school is situated in a one-horse town and has "X" number of students, that's one set of rules. If a small school is situated in a metro area and there are people involved who want to go after State titles, then that makes "total school population" a MEANINGLESS index.
What's the sense of BS'ing one another? The only number that has any relevance to a school in a metro area is THE TOTAL SIZE OF THE POOL FROM WHICH THEY CAN DRAW.
If Fort Meade is still a little distraught, check the record books and you'll find that they had to travel from their one horse town to face Tallahassee's North Florida Christian 4 times in 5 years and lost 4 in a row.
While you're considering what went wrong for Fort Meade, remember that NFC had a green light to cherry-pick THE ENTIRE GREATER TALLAHASSEE METRO AREA. Did they sign all of them? Of course not, but every year during NFC's run (i.e., mid-90's) their roster was peppered with any number of blue-chip athletes who assuredly would have started for then 6A-powerhouse Lincoln.
Give credit to the behind-the-scenes people at NFC for wanting to win so badly that they were able to hustle a roster of players that probably could have beaten the vast majority of 6-A programs, but, in fairness to kids growing in places like Ft. Meade, is that really what should have been happening in the state's smallest classification?
What's the sense of BS'ing one another? The only number that has any relevance to a school in a metro area is THE TOTAL SIZE OF THE POOL FROM WHICH THEY CAN DRAW.
If Fort Meade is still a little distraught, check the record books and you'll find that they had to travel from their one horse town to face Tallahassee's North Florida Christian 4 times in 5 years and lost 4 in a row.
While you're considering what went wrong for Fort Meade, remember that NFC had a green light to cherry-pick THE ENTIRE GREATER TALLAHASSEE METRO AREA. Did they sign all of them? Of course not, but every year during NFC's run (i.e., mid-90's) their roster was peppered with any number of blue-chip athletes who assuredly would have started for then 6A-powerhouse Lincoln.
Give credit to the behind-the-scenes people at NFC for wanting to win so badly that they were able to hustle a roster of players that probably could have beaten the vast majority of 6-A programs, but, in fairness to kids growing in places like Ft. Meade, is that really what should have been happening in the state's smallest classification?
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Phac, I'm gonna break it down real simple for you. The comment in question was stated to suggest that one particular school could be happy about the fact they don't have to play schools that can pull from many resources. Throwing a blanket on all private schools is wrong to do I agree.
I take it you have never seen the teared filled eyes of a teenager as he embraces his teammate that he played little
League with and known his whole life after being defeated in a playoff game by one of these schools that is filled with guys that barely know each other's first name. I understand that the FHSAA is in place to govern high school sports and do what they see is best, and let's face it it's impossible to make everyone happy. But to poke the bear of an issue that has exsisted for 20 years and wonder why everyone is getting fussy, then you my friend are doing nothing but feeding a fire that needs no kindling. As far as I am concerned you pulling your rank card shows most of us that you are not concerned with anything but tooting your own horn and trying to see how many people you can get fired about a subject that has been mostly dead on the forums.
So please do us all a favor, and just drop it
I take it you have never seen the teared filled eyes of a teenager as he embraces his teammate that he played little
League with and known his whole life after being defeated in a playoff game by one of these schools that is filled with guys that barely know each other's first name. I understand that the FHSAA is in place to govern high school sports and do what they see is best, and let's face it it's impossible to make everyone happy. But to poke the bear of an issue that has exsisted for 20 years and wonder why everyone is getting fussy, then you my friend are doing nothing but feeding a fire that needs no kindling. As far as I am concerned you pulling your rank card shows most of us that you are not concerned with anything but tooting your own horn and trying to see how many people you can get fired about a subject that has been mostly dead on the forums.
So please do us all a favor, and just drop it
The common denominator is losing...if Team A wins, they they don't have any reason to cry foul...but, when Team B wins and Team A yells "they cheated", well...that is the definition of being a sore loser.
Now, if it is possible to separate that statement from private school hatred, you won't have a problem with it. However, most folks see what they perceive as an opportunity to take a shortcut and assume that the shortcut was taken.
All I am suggesting is that separating public from private schools is not the answer. Why? Consider this...Team A is a public school...do they recruit? I don't know...all I know is they can compete with almost anyone. Over here is Team B...Team B happens to be a private school who has an "all star" roster which even includes a couple kids who would play for Team A, if they didn't opt for a private education...oh, and Team A just can't seem to beat Team B. What is the default for Team A? Be the squeaky wheel until you get greased by having Team B removed from your district or get a separation of public and private schools. But...here's the snag...let's call them Team C. Team C gets beat by everyone...everyone...has never won a district game...never. Naturally, Team A doesn't have a problem with keeping Team C on their schedule...but, alas, Team C is a privat school as well. They have no interest in recruiting...obviously. Here is the question - why does Team C have to get shuffled off with the private schools who do wish to recruit? The answer Phac Nam typically gets is "well, we know that school doesn't cheat...we just want to get rid of Team B." And that tells me all I need to know...Team A only cares about winning...and they have no interest in what is good for anyone else.
So, tell me...short of my proposal of the Phac/Jessica Selection Committee, what is the solution? It's not as easy as most "think" it is...
Now, if it is possible to separate that statement from private school hatred, you won't have a problem with it. However, most folks see what they perceive as an opportunity to take a shortcut and assume that the shortcut was taken.
All I am suggesting is that separating public from private schools is not the answer. Why? Consider this...Team A is a public school...do they recruit? I don't know...all I know is they can compete with almost anyone. Over here is Team B...Team B happens to be a private school who has an "all star" roster which even includes a couple kids who would play for Team A, if they didn't opt for a private education...oh, and Team A just can't seem to beat Team B. What is the default for Team A? Be the squeaky wheel until you get greased by having Team B removed from your district or get a separation of public and private schools. But...here's the snag...let's call them Team C. Team C gets beat by everyone...everyone...has never won a district game...never. Naturally, Team A doesn't have a problem with keeping Team C on their schedule...but, alas, Team C is a privat school as well. They have no interest in recruiting...obviously. Here is the question - why does Team C have to get shuffled off with the private schools who do wish to recruit? The answer Phac Nam typically gets is "well, we know that school doesn't cheat...we just want to get rid of Team B." And that tells me all I need to know...Team A only cares about winning...and they have no interest in what is good for anyone else.
So, tell me...short of my proposal of the Phac/Jessica Selection Committee, what is the solution? It's not as easy as most "think" it is...
Crabbybills...your honor...
Phac, I'm gonna break it down real simple for you. The comment in question was stated to suggest that one particular school could be happy about the fact they don't have to play schools that can pull from many resources. Throwing a blanket on all private schools is wrong to do I agree.
Thank you for that concession...I would also offer that the BIG resource public schools have is funding from the public...I'm sure we don't have the idea that Daddy Warbucks isn't funding every private school football team out there, are we?
I take it you have never seen the teared filled eyes of a teenager as he embraces his teammate that he played little
League with and known his whole life after being defeated in a playoff game by one of these schools that is filled with guys that barely know each other's first name.
Boy, that's an over dramatization...however...am I allowed to say I spent more than half my coaching career in a public school without being accused of anything? So, why would you "take that"?
I understand that the FHSAA is in place to govern high school sports and do what they see is best, and let's face it it's impossible to make everyone happy.
Amen.
But to poke the bear of an issue that has exsisted for 20 years and wonder why everyone is getting fussy, then you my friend are doing nothing but feeding a fire that needs no kindling.
Where did this wonderment take place? And, what is the statute of limitations for discussion on this forum, your honor? I kid, but I think you get my drift...by the way, why is it that only the "other side" is the only side who seems angry and in the mood for slinging mud?
As far as I am concerned you pulling your rank card shows most of us that you are not concerned with anything but tooting your own horn and trying to see how many people you can get fired about a subject that has been mostly dead on the forums.
No offense, sir...but your concern is not law, is it? If you go back, I shared my experience after someone suggested that I educate myself on these matters? That's no horn tooting...that's putting someone in their place as tactfully as I could. The subject of racism has been around a while...love never heard anyone suggest we put that one to bed.
So please do us all a favor, and just drop it
That may be a favor for you, sir, but you do not speak for everyone...and I will do you a favor...I will explain that if you don't click on this link you won't have to involve yourself in the discussion anymore.
Phac, I'm gonna break it down real simple for you. The comment in question was stated to suggest that one particular school could be happy about the fact they don't have to play schools that can pull from many resources. Throwing a blanket on all private schools is wrong to do I agree.
Thank you for that concession...I would also offer that the BIG resource public schools have is funding from the public...I'm sure we don't have the idea that Daddy Warbucks isn't funding every private school football team out there, are we?
I take it you have never seen the teared filled eyes of a teenager as he embraces his teammate that he played little
League with and known his whole life after being defeated in a playoff game by one of these schools that is filled with guys that barely know each other's first name.
Boy, that's an over dramatization...however...am I allowed to say I spent more than half my coaching career in a public school without being accused of anything? So, why would you "take that"?
I understand that the FHSAA is in place to govern high school sports and do what they see is best, and let's face it it's impossible to make everyone happy.
Amen.
But to poke the bear of an issue that has exsisted for 20 years and wonder why everyone is getting fussy, then you my friend are doing nothing but feeding a fire that needs no kindling.
Where did this wonderment take place? And, what is the statute of limitations for discussion on this forum, your honor? I kid, but I think you get my drift...by the way, why is it that only the "other side" is the only side who seems angry and in the mood for slinging mud?
As far as I am concerned you pulling your rank card shows most of us that you are not concerned with anything but tooting your own horn and trying to see how many people you can get fired about a subject that has been mostly dead on the forums.
No offense, sir...but your concern is not law, is it? If you go back, I shared my experience after someone suggested that I educate myself on these matters? That's no horn tooting...that's putting someone in their place as tactfully as I could. The subject of racism has been around a while...love never heard anyone suggest we put that one to bed.
So please do us all a favor, and just drop it
That may be a favor for you, sir, but you do not speak for everyone...and I will do you a favor...I will explain that if you don't click on this link you won't have to involve yourself in the discussion anymore.
No sir, all the honor belongs to you.
And you are correct sir, my concern is not the law and I probably don't speak for everyone, I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy your tactful posts.
No one claimed its an easy fix, heck there really isn't the perfect solution. But I dunno maybe I got my feelings hurt awfully easy and I'm a sore loser.
Glad we're in 1a with all the other people who get their feelings hurt easy and are sore losers, was that casting to much of a blanket for you?
And you are correct sir, my concern is not the law and I probably don't speak for everyone, I'm sure there are people out there that enjoy your tactful posts.
No one claimed its an easy fix, heck there really isn't the perfect solution. But I dunno maybe I got my feelings hurt awfully easy and I'm a sore loser.
Glad we're in 1a with all the other people who get their feelings hurt easy and are sore losers, was that casting to much of a blanket for you?
Crabby, are you saying there is no equitable fix? What if there was a board of AD's, Principals, and coaches who could approve a small (less than 600) private school to go into a special division so they can avoid the Boogey Man (call the St. Trinity School Bulldogs) too?
How about this, give the all the "manufactured" teams (e.g., schools with 300 students that magically end up with 10 D-1 prospects) a trophy before the season even begins. Hand them their hardware, shake hands, pound all the "boosters" on the back and say "What a amazing job you boys have done in stockpiling this many D-1 prospects. You have nothing left to prove, therefore don't worry about playing any games. Here's the trophy."
Once that's taken care of, let the rest of the schools go at it.
Once that's taken care of, let the rest of the schools go at it.
its not about avoiding the boogey man, it's about these small town kids having a memorable Halloween expirence.
Unfortunately, fair is a subjective word nowadays. Growing up it was fair for me to get my butt tore up for doing something wrong. Fair didn't mean always nice or always in my favor. So maybe it would be fair to say that fhsaa should do a little digging into how some of these high profile programs are run.
I don't think they have the man power...do you? Do they just "stop and frisk" the teams who win? On that level, it's probably necessary that the FHSAA wait for someone to turn in evidence and accusations...how many people actually work for the FHSAA? The number is probably so small that most would be surprised, don't you think?
Seriously, a possible solution to the problem may involve grading (or rating) players. Probably couldn't have been done 15-20 years ago, but would be of relative ease today with all the camps that are conducted.
When Nu'Trelle competed in Open League fast-pitch softball ( a long, long time ago) players were ranked according to the highest classification that they had played. The four classes (high to low) were "Open", "A", "B" and "C".
If Nu'Trelle remembers correctly, a team playing in a lower classification could have up to 3 players on their roster who had played at the next highest level (e.g., An A team could have 3 players who played in an Open League, adding a fourth would mean they would have to move the team into an Open League). On the other hand, a "C" team could chose to add 3 "B" players, or one "A" and one "B", or one "Open" player.
Sounds real complicated, but it wasn't. Why was it done in the first place? Pretty simple. "C" leagues, for example, were essentially church leagues. You wouldn't think church-goers would think about cheating, but occasionally church teams would be caught sandbagging, using ringers playing under assumed names. Didn't happen often because the penalty for sandbagging was the death penalty. And no team wanted to get tossed after coming up with the entry fees.
Makes no difference how you slice it or dice far as Nu'Trelle is concerned, but when a team in FL who is in 3A brags about coming up with 12-15 D-1 athletes (or some such ridiculous number) the FHSAA needs to be able to mandate that they compete in the highest classification (8A).
Hey! Ft. Meade was able to pull out a win over long time rival Bartow... and there is water on Mars. 
Makes no difference how you slice it or dice far as Nu'Trelle is concerned, but when a team in FL who is in 3A brags about coming up with 12-15 D-1 athletes (or some such ridiculous number) the FHSAA needs to be able to mandate that they compete in the highest classification (8A).
It might surprise folks who read but don't listen...but I agree with that!
It might surprise folks who read but don't listen...but I agree with that!
