ADVERTISEMENT

Braden River Hudl Account Investigation

Football941

Football941

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2017
414
52
28
Venice Gondolier Sun‏@VeniceGondolier 7m7 minutes ago
Breaking: HUDL investigation determines that the Braden River football coaching staff allegedly used an improper recruit account to view game footage of Venice, North Port, Sarasota and Booker High School games.

The Manatee County School District is pursuing disciplinary action


I had heard this was swept under the rug but it seems it has not.
 
peezy28 said:
941.. Bet your happy to be wrong on this one
Click to expand...

Not exactly happy. More questions now than answers.

The information has been out there about this for months. It has been actually common knowledge something was wrong for a long time. When the coaches said something to administration about it they were told it would be handled internally and really nothing really happened. So the coaches took it further and was reprimanded for it.

So if all of this has been known, why wait until now? We are now 11 days from the start of practice.

On another note, this area is seen from the outside as a crazy bunch of lunatics. Anyone reading this has to be thinking what the hell are these guys doing. Its a bad light on what is really two good teams with a big rivalry. This has been the game to watch in this area for 3 years now.
 
You are correct people are looking at your area and getting a sour taste or comparing you to Friday Night Lights movie
 
Football941 said:
Not exactly happy. More questions now than answers.

The information has been out there about this for months. It has been actually common knowledge something was wrong for a long time. When the coaches said something to administration about it they were told it would be handled internally and really nothing really happened. So the coaches took it further and was reprimanded for it.

So if all of this has been known, why wait until now? We are now 11 days from the start of practice.

On another note, this area is seen from the outside as a crazy bunch of lunatics. Anyone reading this has to be thinking what the hell are these guys doing. Its a bad light on what is really two good teams with a big rivalry. This has been the game to watch in this area for 3 years now.
Click to expand...


Sounds petty to me.
 
Football941 said:
How so?
Click to expand...

The article fails to state exactly what specific policy was violated and that it has reported to the incident to FHSAA to see if any regulations were violated. Sounds like a gray area to me. After doing some research of my own on the FHSAA website, I couldn't find specifically what rule was violated. Not exactly ethical on Braden River's part, but it there isn't a specific policy or rule, then was one broke? Secondly, once a video is posted on the web, even if its a secure account, you run the risk of someone you don't want getting it. Sounds to me like the college coach who gave access should be held accountable. Public schools in Florida are subject to Florida public records laws same as city and county governments. Florida public records law, FS119, says unless something is specifically exempted, any record created, regardless of format (paper, electronic recording, even telephone calls) is subject to public inspection and must be produced upon request. I as a citizen should be able to make a public records request of Venice high school of any video tapes or recordings of their practices and they would have to produce them! Fat chance I would get them with out a fight, but the courts would most likely rule as such. From my point of view, Venice was trusting of HUDL that their practices wouldn't be made public. HUDL kept them secure. A user gave the Braden River coach his user name and password. Sounds to me that this college coach may have violated HUDL's terms and agreements. It wasn't nice on Braden Rivers part to go snooping, but again, what specific rule was violated? The known drama between these two programs is well known. This is just another chapter.
 
Hwy 17
You are absolutely correct. FHSSA has no rule in place for this type of incident. So the FHSSA really has nothing it can do.

Its more of an administration issue. Manatee County has deemed this a punishable offense and it sounds like they will handle it internally.
Venice knew that their Hudl was compromised. They followed up with an investigation into which IP address had accessed the account. Then they found out other Sarasota County schools had also had their accounts accessed. IP was tracked back to BR.

From my view this is like hacking into a personal database more than a public website. It contains items you as a coach would not believe another opponent would have access to.

This is a coach who asked for a password from a friend so he could have access to something he knew in a normal circumstance was wrong.

Question is do others think this is cheating? At the very least wrong? Does it warrant punishment?

The fact that they had access and couldn't win was interesting as well. In the 3 years that the account was under question BR was 2-4 with 4 straight losses in that span vs Venice.
 
Cheating... no...

I remember back in the day trading tapes with a Week 6 opponent (we gave them the previous 2 weeks and they did the same), but they also gave us takes of our Week 7 opponent from an earlier tape exchange they did and we had a week 8 tape. Do I consider this cheating, not really. It was harder to get video of teams back then, the internet wasn't what it is today, and the videos aren't what they are today.

Now, in terms of Hudl, I consider it a lapse of judgement on the part of Braden River and the "recruit" coach. They knew they were supposed to see it, especially the practice film. No different than a kid getting a copy of the test before the exam.

Punishment... seminar on ethics, sit out 1st week of regular season coach. Now, with Braden River seeming to be a repeat offender with the practicing early, maybe a bit more so 2 weeks coach has no contact and has interim coach.
 
gatorman-uf said:
Cheating... no...

I remember back in the day trading tapes with a Week 6 opponent (we gave them the previous 2 weeks and they did the same), but they also gave us takes of our Week 7 opponent from an earlier tape exchange they did and we had a week 8 tape. Do I consider this cheating, not really. It was harder to get video of teams back then, the internet wasn't what it is today, and the videos aren't what they are today.

Now, in terms of Hudl, I consider it a lapse of judgement on the part of Braden River and the "recruit" coach. They knew they were supposed to see it, especially the practice film. No different than a kid getting a copy of the test before the exam.

Punishment... seminar on ethics, sit out 1st week of regular season coach. Now, with Braden River seeming to be a repeat offender with the practicing early, maybe a bit more so 2 weeks coach has no contact and has interim coach.
Click to expand...


I will disagree on the lapse of judgement call.

Bradley (who played at Northern Iowa as a WR and was drafted by the Dodgers) had a college teammate from back in the day give him a password to access Hudl accounts for upcoming scheduled games. That college teammate is now a college coach. Accounts he did not have the permission to access without a password.

That is no lapse in judgement in my book.

BR for the last 3 years has no shared game film with any opponent. He doesn't have to when he can just access the opponent Hudl account.

My guess is he will be disciplined in the same manner. 1 or 2 games suspended and the obligatory seminar.
 
Football941 said:
Hwy 17
You are absolutely correct. FHSSA has no rule in place for this type of incident. So the FHSSA really has nothing it can do.

Its more of an administration issue. Manatee County has deemed this a punishable offense and it sounds like they will handle it internally.
Venice knew that their Hudl was compromised. They followed up with an investigation into which IP address had accessed the account. Then they found out other Sarasota County schools had also had their accounts accessed. IP was tracked back to BR.

From my view this is like hacking into a personal database more than a public website. It contains items you as a coach would not believe another opponent would have access to.

This is a coach who asked for a password from a friend so he could have access to something he knew in a normal circumstance was wrong.

Question is do others think this is cheating? At the very least wrong? Does it warrant punishment?

The fact that they had access and couldn't win was interesting as well. In the 3 years that the account was under question BR was 2-4 with 4 straight losses in that span vs Venice.
Click to expand...

Another reason why I believe its petty is that I'm not convinced it gave Braden River that much of an advantage and the comments by the Venice coach are exaggerated. Understand why he is pissed off, but still Venice won. Reminds me of Faxgate involving Ron Zook when he was at UF and a fired coach from Tennessee sent him the volunteers playbook.
 
Hwy17 said:
Another reason why I believe its petty is that I'm not convinced it gave Braden River that much of an advantage and the comments by the Venice coach are exaggerated. Understand why he is pissed off, but still Venice won. Reminds me of Faxgate involving Ron Zook when he was at UF and a fired coach from Tennessee sent him the volunteers playbook.
Click to expand...

Asking this to be open minded but if Venice had lost that would have given this more clout?
Because Venice won 4 out of the 6 games its ok?
 
Football941 said:
Asking this to be open minded but if Venice had lost that would have given this more clout?
Because Venice won 4 out of the 6 games its ok?
Click to expand...

Fair question but based off what I have heard other coaches say over the years I think a bigger deal is being made over this than what really should be made out of it because Bradley and Peacock obviously don't like one another.

As gatorman said above, teams use to exchange videos as a professional courtesy and sometimes you get lucky and get an extra tape or two of a common opponent. Besides that, coaches tend to keep their same plays from year to year so studying film of last year's game is typically done. This is why I think the comments by the Venice coach are exaggerated somewhat.

Some examples of what I was saying about what I've heard other coaches say: In an interview with Tom Landry he stated he and his Dallas Cowboys knew exactly what plays and when Vince Lombardi Packers were going to run, yet still couldn't beat them. On the hs level, retired Hardee coach Jerry Kapusta gave an interview about exchanging game film with Desoto coach Bowers. He told Bowers exactly what his game plan was and did it and still won.

IDK, just sounds like the latest chapter in the ongoing pissing match between Bradley and Peacock. I couldn't imagine seeing this out of old coaches like Meachtle, Kinnan or Powell.
 
The more a rival loses to another, because of their fan base or HC job security - whatever, the more desperate some become.

That can be for a true rival or a even a perceived one. That doesn't just happen in Sarasota County, I can assure you.

Its absolutely amazing some of the Bush League things some programs will resort to in those cases. Its a disservice to the integrity of the game and its players.
 
The game of football is under attack b/c of the attention to it's physicality. While I see it as a strength, as a means to building the character of the young men entrusted to us, others see it as a reason to end the game.
The ONLY argument against ending football that garners any attention is it's aforesaid ability to develop character. This video/Hudl issue is EXACTLY the kind of ammunition that football's opponents will use to end this game. It is a lack of character from the head coach, and/or someone on the staff. [Spare the excuses above (others do it; public records; it didn't provide an advantage), and I have no personal connection to any school involved.] Any coach in that situation would absolutely know they would be in the wrong to secure a means to watching opponent video in this manner.
This behavior, and the willingness to condone it will be the crack in the wall that ends football. Either we are building character through this great game. Or we are not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Silver King
Football941 said:
I will disagree on the lapse of judgement call.

BR for the last 3 years has no shared game film with any opponent. He doesn't have to when he can just access the opponent Hudl account.

My guess is he will be disciplined in the same manner. 1 or 2 games suspended and the obligatory seminar.
Click to expand...

Hasn't shared film in 3 years?!?!? Wow, that is jerky.
 
Football941 said:
BR for the last 3 years has no shared game film with any opponent. He doesn't have to when he can just access the opponent Hudl account.
Click to expand...

Not completely true... He just did that to the local schools I guess because I checked and he shared vid with Clearwater last year.
 
peezy28 said:
Not completely true... He just did that to the local schools I guess because I checked and he shared vid with Clearwater last year.
Click to expand...
That could be true.
I should have said they have not shared film with Venice for 3 years.
 
So since coaches exchange the last 2 games this makes it ok for Bradley to have an illegal login to get all game tapes from all opponents?
Coaches do not exchange the end zone view with other schools and BR had access to all opponets endzone copies as well? Come on man this is bad stuff, real bad stuff. This isn’t about BR and Venice it’s about BR and everyone they have played the last 3 years. This is not about Venice.
 
Keepingitrealinsrq said:
So since coaches exchange the last 2 games this makes it ok for Bradley to have an illegal login to get all game tapes from all opponents?
Coaches do not exchange the end zone view with other schools and BR had access to all opponets endzone copies as well? Come on man this is bad stuff, real bad stuff. This isn’t about BR and Venice it’s about BR and everyone they have played the last 3 years. This is not about Venice.
Click to expand...

Its Venice who reported it so I'm guessing because of that most think it should be no big deal. Because it doesn't seem to affect the outcome of most of the games they played.
I find it a bit more substantial of an issue than most, but I am biased from the start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Silver King
Let's get real here, whether its sports or business, people want inside info or intelligence on their opponents and competition. Anyone else who got a user name and password given to them would do the same. As pointed out above, there is no specific rule violated, other than the Manatee school system feels it warrants some kind of punishment, to be determined. So what is the fair punishment? Stop doing it? Issue an apology? Suspension maybe? Loosing job over it sounds like excessive punishment to me.
 
Keepingitrealinsrq said:
So it’s not cheating?
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced it is, because I'm not convinced it gave Braden River any unfair advantage. If it did give them an unfair advantage, the results would have been different.

I understand why the Venice coach is upset, but I also see the comments that Braden River had some kind of advantage as a little exaggerated. While Braden River may have been able to prepare a little better for the game, they still have to play the game and hope their preparation works. Braden River still had to execute and hope they can stop Venice from executing their game plan. Watching game film doesn't make your players any faster, more skilled, or stronger. Also, winning coach I know has the ability to adjust on the fly when things aren't working. Sure, plays may be scripted, but you can't tell me that coach Peacock doesn't make an adjustment when warranted. That's what separates great coaches from average coaches.

As for the other local teams on Braden River's schedule: North Port, Lakewood Ranch, Booker, Bayshore; those are teams that Braden River would have beat anyway and most would agree with that.
 
Hwy17 said:
I'm not convinced it is, because I'm not convinced it gave Braden River any unfair advantage. If it did give them an unfair advantage, the results would have been different.

I understand why the Venice coach is upset, but I also see the comments that Braden River had some kind of advantage as a little exaggerated. While Braden River may have been able to prepare a little better for the game, they still have to play the game and hope their preparation works. Braden River still had to execute and hope they can stop Venice from executing their game plan. Watching game film doesn't make your players any faster, more skilled, or stronger. Also, winning coach I know has the ability to adjust on the fly when things aren't working. Sure, plays may be scripted, but you can't tell me that coach Peacock doesn't make an adjustment when warranted. That's what separates great coaches from average coaches.

As for the other local teams on Braden River's schedule: North Port, Lakewood Ranch, Booker, Bayshore; those are teams that Braden River would have beat anyway and most would agree with that.
Click to expand...


So its ok because the other Sarasota County teams would have lost anyway and Venice had won 4 out of the 6.
Its ok because there was no perceived advantage ?

Absolutely an advantage as I spoke to a few players today. Funny as they couldn't figure out why BR knew exactly what plays were coming.

Coaches did make adjustments and wouldn't you know they had a good idea of what to expect.

Listen I'm not calling for the BR coaches to be fired. I'm saying what they did was very wrong. They should be punished in whatever way Manatee County deems necessary. Say it was a dirty play and move on.

I'm sure as most can find, a lot of games floating around YouTube and wherever. I'm saying accessing an account that is not yours prior to the week you play to "spy" on the opponent is wrong.
Hell if that's the case lets just set up shop across from practice with a camera and do whatever. If that is the case then high school football is a bit crazier than I thought.
 
Football941 said:
So its ok because the other Sarasota County teams would have lost anyway and Venice had won 4 out of the 6.
Its ok because there was no perceived advantage ?

Absolutely an advantage as I spoke to a few players today. Funny as they couldn't figure out why BR knew exactly what plays were coming.

Coaches did make adjustments and wouldn't you know they had a good idea of what to expect.

Listen I'm not calling for the BR coaches to be fired. I'm saying what they did was very wrong. They should be punished in whatever way Manatee County deems necessary. Say it was a dirty play and move on.

I'm sure as most can find, a lot of games floating around YouTube and wherever. I'm saying accessing an account that is not yours prior to the week you play to "spy" on the opponent is wrong.
Hell if that's the case lets just set up shop across from practice with a camera and do whatever. If that is the case then high school football is a bit crazier than I thought.
Click to expand...

If Venice saved practices under games they violated Hulds terms and conditions and are essentially stealing from them. Hudl gives you a set amount of memory for practices and scout tape, yet games are unlimited. Venice doesn't just post some games on YouTube they post them all full sideline view. For you to stand on your soapbox and cry about this or anyone from Venice to cry about this is absolutely insulting to intelligence of the local football community. There are people who see right through this BS, and trust me those people are watching the Venice program real close.

You can only play the victim card so many times. Venice is out here outright recruiting and poaching kids from other area schools, and using falsified addresses to make it work. For Venice to be constantly complaining about another team cheating is incredibly hypocritical. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
 
It seems as if BR has more to worry about than just Hudl. If proven player living w a booster is going to have the FHSAA coming for a talk.

.
  • Anonymous alleges that a star wide receiver is living with a booster. If accurate, this is illegal in the high school football arena.
  • Anonymous alleges that a star running back had an individual out of Tallahassee taking online classes for him
  • Anonymous alleges that the grades of some football players have been changed
  • Anonymous alleges multiple recruiting violations
  • Anonymous alleges drug abuse by players and no disciplinary action was taken, once the coach found out
 
Last edited:
Flarda18 said:
If Venice saved practices under games they violated Hulds terms and conditions and are essentially stealing from them. Hudl gives you a set amount of memory for practices and scout tape, yet games are unlimited. Venice doesn't just post some games on YouTube they post them all full sideline view. For you to stand on your soapbox and cry about this or anyone from Venice to cry about this is absolutely insulting to intelligence of the local football community. There are people who see right through this BS, and trust me those people are watching the Venice program real close.

You can only play the victim card so many times. Venice is out here outright recruiting and poaching kids from other area schools, and using falsified addresses to make it work. For Venice to be constantly complaining about another team cheating is incredibly hypocritical. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Click to expand...


Showing a game on YouTube after it is over and access the Hudl account is much different. If you want to use the YouTube game by all means have at it. Nothing being hidden there.
I'm sure that people are watching Venice close.
I saw your post earlier that you deleted.
I'm sure news about Venice will be out tomorrow.
 
Football941 said:
So its ok because the other Sarasota County teams would have lost anyway and Venice had won 4 out of the 6.
Its ok because there was no perceived advantage ?

Absolutely an advantage as I spoke to a few players today. Funny as they couldn't figure out why BR knew exactly what plays were coming.

Coaches did make adjustments and wouldn't you know they had a good idea of what to expect.

Listen I'm not calling for the BR coaches to be fired. I'm saying what they did was very wrong. They should be punished in whatever way Manatee County deems necessary. Say it was a dirty play and move on.

I'm sure as most can find, a lot of games floating around YouTube and wherever. I'm saying accessing an account that is not yours prior to the week you play to "spy" on the opponent is wrong.
Hell if that's the case lets just set up shop across from practice with a camera and do whatever. If that is the case then high school football is a bit crazier than I thought.
Click to expand...


Football941 - I'm not saying its ok. I just see it as petty. Shame on Braden River coach for doing it, its dirty, but also to act like it is some major violation is also petty. More shame on the college coach who gave him access. You wonder what folks from outside the area think - it looks like a pissing match between to grown men. If I was a coach of Venice or any of the others involved I would do a couple of things after finding out about it. #1. I'd post a bunch of videos of plays I have no intention running; #2. Find out who the college coach was that gave him access and make damn sure his name was mud among high school coaches in Florida; he'd never get another recruit out of the state. Then, after the season, go to the press.
 
Hwy17 said:
Football941 - I'm not saying its ok. I just see it as petty. Shame on Braden River coach for doing it, its dirty, but also to act like it is some major violation is also petty. More shame on the college coach who gave him access. You wonder what folks from outside the area think - it looks like a pissing match between to grown men. If I was a coach of Venice or any of the others involved I would do a couple of things after finding out about it. #1. I'd post a bunch of videos of plays I have no intention running; #2. Find out who the college coach was that gave him access and make damn sure his name was mud among high school coaches in Florida; he'd never get another recruit out of the state. Then, after the season, go to the press.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with the thought of a huge pissing match. For sure.

I know the video thing has been handled and will not be an issue now.

The college coach who gave him the info, who knows what will happen to him.
 
Actually if a person gave out login details to another person it is in fact illegal and it’s a felony… If the school or even FHSAA wanted to press the issue they could… In fact the person can be charged on both the state and federal levels…

The SCOTUS has ruled on things like this and said sharing login info is illegal so the laws stood their ground…
 
HardeeWildcatFan said:
Actually if a person gave out login details to another person it is in fact illegal and it’s a felony… If the school or even FHSAA wanted to press the issue they could… In fact the person can be charged on both the state and federal levels…

The SCOTUS has ruled on things like this and said sharing login info is illegal so the laws stood their ground…
Click to expand...

A Felony??? HSFB... yeah I'm not seeing it
 
This Hudl thing is a crazy story. You cant make things like this up. As of now I do not think this will go farther than the set punishment from Manatee County. If I recall stands at a 3 game suspension. Basically the same as Peacock for liking the Tweet. Seems to two counties have said they just need this to go away.

But.... there are (and have been) new FHSSA allegations against BR that could have a huge impact on not only the coach but administration if proven. I say IF because some of the violations are pretty serious. Serious enough that Manatee County lawyers are trying to hide them. I copied and pasted the letter for removal of the actual papers for violations from the guy who broke the Hudl account as well. Seems he might be onto something people have been talking about for awhile.

CEASE & DESIST

You have published on social media a letter and additional information that contains allegations against the football program at Braden River High School and their staff.

The district office in conjunction with legal is directing you to cease and desist circulating this information as it may contain FERPA protected material as well as items that may constitute defamation and slander.

The district and BRHS are aware of the allegations and are working with the FHSAA to look into mater.

Thank you in advance for your courtesy and cooperation.

Mitchell Teitelbaum, Esq.

General Counsel

School District of Manatee County
 
peezy28 said:
A Felony??? HSFB... yeah I'm not seeing it
Click to expand...

Yes it is. The Supreme Court just ruled on this issue. People were sharing their Netflix accounts with others. The Feds created a law and the Supreme Court upheld the law. It’s a felony trust me...

This is why Netflix came up with the 4 user program we pay for now. It allows up to 4 users to sign into using four different IP adresses.
 
Good thing coaches don't call around and get every game their opponent has played anyways. ;) They all should be available and let the best staff and kids win
 
Bulldog1987 said:
Good thing coaches don't call around and get every game their opponent has played anyways. ;) They all should be available and let the best staff and kids win
Click to expand...

Open exchange within the two counties seems like the best solution for this problem. Can anybody argue against that? Clearly will elevate the quality of play in the area, and somewhat set the area apart.
 
SCOTUS rejected reviewing the Netflix case.

The Ninth Circuit addressed a different set of facts in both cases. Neither case involved an individual who shared his Netflix password with out of state family. Rather, the Powers case involved a company scraping data from Facebook using the authorization, usernames, and passwords, of Facebook's users (who knowingly provided access), even after Facebook sent a formal demand for Powers to cease and desist. And the Nosal case involved the theft of trade secret data by gaining access to an ex-employer's database.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

gatorman001

MANATEE 10 BRADEN RIVER 7

Replies
1
Views
1K
Football Central
MarkECannon
MarkECannon
Silver King

2022 FHSAA new district assignments "All 17 area teams divided among six Suburban classes" from the great Dennis Maffezzoli, Sarasota Herald

Replies
45
Views
3K
Football Central
peezy28
peezy28
F
  • Sticky

2023 Football Quotes from Athletes

Replies
0
Views
1K
The Red Zone
FlaVarsity.com
F
Silver King

Congrats Tarpon Binky Waldrop on being inducted into Florida Coaching Hall of Fame!

Replies
7
Views
1K
Football Central
Silver King
Silver King
D

Mainland at St. Edwards , the ugly truth...

Replies
29
Views
2K
Football Central
Silver King
Silver King
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back