Manatee since Kinnan left ...
- Thread starter Drummer61
- Start date
Can they become good again? Of course, they can.
Is Booth as good as Kinnan? Does he have to be? He needs to be the best Coach Booth he can be and not try and measure up.
Has IMG hurt them in terms of talent? Doesn't have to be just IMG these days.
The program is not the same as it was when Joe was there, but neither is the area, or the attitudes, or the climate in the state in regards to kids staying home to play.
Manatee is pretty good this year. Let's see what happens. Booth, and his staff, have had to endure a lot of adversity in his short time there. I think he's handled the program as well as anyone could have given the circumstances.
For having lost a big time RB and a stud at DE/LB this team is still performing at a pretty high level. There is still plenty of talent at Manatee.
As far as Joe Kinnan goes, the guy is in the Hall of Fame for a reason. He's an offensive genius and he surrounded himself with a solid staff that was very loyal to him. We've got to give John the same opportunity with his staff. He's got a pretty good football mind himself and is still very young.
For having lost a big time RB and a stud at DE/LB this team is still performing at a pretty high level. There is still plenty of talent at Manatee.
As far as Joe Kinnan goes, the guy is in the Hall of Fame for a reason. He's an offensive genius and he surrounded himself with a solid staff that was very loyal to him. We've got to give John the same opportunity with his staff. He's got a pretty good football mind himself and is still very young.
And without a Bosco reference. Which he really wanted to drop in, though.
Still should stay in punctuation rehab, though.
They were 11-2 last year, one game from their 8th finals appearance. 6-2 this year winning their second straight district title under Booths helm, so to answer your question they will continue to have good teams! As for IMG, they haven't effected Manatee one bit! We have had one player transfer to them since IMG started their program and that was before coach Booth took over. Coach Booth is new school where Kinnan was old school. An example of that is their new Jumbotron, Kinnan was never for it, as for coach Booth on the other hand, he has taken Manatee's relationship with Under Armour to another level. Manatee is one of only about 4 or 5 schools that are considered Undeniable by Under Armour. That is their elite schools in the country they sponsor. Manatee will continue it rich tradition and winning ways under coach Booth!
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. I really was NOT thinking about the other team as that other team always thought highly of Manatee.. Good one..
Exactly, Manatee is an Elite school because of Kinnan. That's not saying anything bad about the current coach and Manatee will be successful for many years to come. But Kinnan is the one who started all of this so hopefully the new guy can keep it going and don't see why he wouldn't .
It may be unfair and somewhat unrealistic to think that Booth will duplicate Kinnan's success. It may be okay to set the bar high but he will not do what Kinnan did. As far as IMG goes, they are useless. They can't compete for a state championship so to me, that defeats the purpose of high school sports. Their resources and facilities are second to none but it's a manufactured team with no brotherhood. They are not hurting Manatee at all.
Hammer's last sentence sums it up, just have to wait and see how Coach Booth does down the road. It's like what everyone says it's not the x's and o's, but the Jimmy and Joe's. There are a lot of external factors that coaches can't manipulate or have control over anymore in todays world.
Booth has done well as the HBC of the varsity Hurricane team this year and last with the talent Joe left behind, but much remains to be seen on whether Booth can truly run a program from the bottom-up? The current freshman team like last year has lost almost all of its games, and while the JV team is having a much better season than even I expected (I'd be interested to hear how Manatee managed the talent infusion from 9th graders to 10th graders, because as 9th graders they were terrible?) (TWC249 - 1 freshman TB does not translate into a winning JV team, there's obviously been more talent infusion beyond just that young man)
The ability to run a program top to bottom will probably be what truly determines where Booth fits in comparing him to Joe. Booth has had more than a few obstacles thrown his way, and to be completely honest I think he's done well to over-come them in the manner he has! I feel Booth up to this point deserves a slight tip of the hat for what he's over-come......but much remains to be seen in as far as saying he this or that just yet.
Go Canes Go!
FLABOY941, Braden RIver doesn't want to play Manatee on any level. That includes FR and JV. Booth tried to schedule a game with them back in early spring but they said their schedule was full. Later in the summer Bradley was looking for several games to fill his schedule. They have a good football team but they are very over rated! Their schedule over the past two years has been a joke. He will not play the Canes and after this year they are going to be hurting! Booth could easily go out and schedule the Bayshore's and North Port's of the world and go undefeated. It's just a different approach to getting your team better! Don't see them playing anytime soon.
I'll take your word for it on the scheduling, but Braden River has a pretty good football team this year. They flat out whipped Palmetto. They can play and I expect them to make a deep run this year.
Also, I'd like your opinion on what's going on with our FR and JV teams. When I was coming through we never lost and we had deep rosters. What is the issue and do you see them shutting the FR team down in the future?
jgking83, I'm thinking much of the answer on the improvement of JV team this season maybe lays with the number of full quarters a student can play each week. Not sure what the rule is in Florida, but in Georgia its 6. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn the many varsity 2nd and 3rd teamers are playing JV games on Thursday night and then their minutes are just closely being watched Friday..(if they see game time).
I believe Joe's ability to bring the Manatee HS program back after he returned for his 2nd term as the HBC stems from his involvement with the PAL youth leagues while he was away. Once he returned his ability to simply out recruit the other county HS through basically the open transfer rules that now exist is what fueled the return of Manatee's standing as a state power.
The new jumbotron to me is Booth simply trying to bring different elements to Manatee HS, that a young 9th or 10th grader might find alluring. Will it work long term.......I don't know? I know the west Bradenton I knew growing up has gone down hill big time, in fact I find it very discouraging each time I return for a visit. The area out near the interstate when I left Florida was all palmetto's and pine trees has become built up with homes and business galore and eventually with the influence of money out east, will make it next to impossible for anyone to keep up with.
Go Canes Go!
I thought the rule was actually that you could only play in one game within a week. Is it truly based on minutes? So, if I were a freshman, I could technically play at least one quarter and a third in each of the three levels of the team a week? Doesn't seem quite right.
Losing every game on freshman will not bring incoming 9th graders to your school. Palmetto's freshman team is undefeated this year. I think Booth will have to put more focus on the lower level teams because that is the future of Manatee. Booth's first head coaching job was Bloomingdale and their best season was 6-4 (I think) so after this year, he will have to work some magic fast.
Nor the level of scrutiny brought upon Manatee now because of those last few years before the regime change.
It was my understanding that a player could get in trouble for even dressing out for more than one game per week.
Wow! I can't believe you wrote that given the debates that have been had on this board in regards to recruiting and school choice being the avenue used to make it practically legal.
I don't blame them for not playing Manatee, at least at this point. Braden River is building a program and in my opinion, building it the right way. As I recall, Braden River fielded their first team in 2009, and has gradually gotten better each year. The HTPreps article I read a couple of days ago mentioned how BR's seniors lost nearly every game as freshmen and now has won back-to-back district titles. From what I've seen from this year's BR team, I believe they can hang with anybody, whether next year's BR team will be able to is another question.
It is what it is Hwy17, as well as just my thoughts................not meant to be construed as the Gospel.....
Go Canes Go!
So how do they get away with it? Are there hard feelings between Kinnan and Meachtle?
I had some very interesting conversations with some folks that were closely involved with the Southeast football program the last few years Meachtle was there. Coach Meachtle had lost control of the program, in much the same way coach Kinnan had. The issues with each situation were completely different but to me both situations point to individuals that had lost control over what each had worked so hard to develop. As far as player movement....... its gone on forever in Manatee County, the difference today is that the school systems have bought into it now and have added a means to more easily facilitate that movement is all.
Go Canes Go!
Go Canes Go!
Bottom line is, kids are just not coming out for football. Several county teams are not fielding FR teams. Right now there are about 6 or 7 freshman on the JV team and are starting. Getting quality coaches on that low levels is what coach Booth is trying to do. The younger good players or the ones with potential are going to be playing on the upper levels. Gone are the days where all FR just play FR football. If Manatee made all their FR play freshmen football we wouldn't be talking about this. They would be undefeated and player development would be hurting. Manatee's freshman class is very talented and the coaches are excited. They are not concerned about winning as compared to developing these kids for the future.
If you want to go on what the freshmen and Junior Varsity teams are doing winning wise then your getting a misconception of where the program stands. None of the coaches are concerned. They are actually excited about the future!
If you want to go on what the freshmen and Junior Varsity teams are doing winning wise then your getting a misconception of where the program stands. None of the coaches are concerned. They are actually excited about the future!
Yeah, using that as a forecaster isn't great. For years an area team would beat our 9th grade team and maybe even the JV, then as varsity players that other team would lose by 20 or more. Sometimes it was because the lower level games meant so much to them, they'd bring down older kids to play - kind of counter productive to what you really want in player development.
A conversation I had with a Southeast faculty member 2 years ago was that Southeast downfall was due to transfers to other programs, Manatee in particular and Palmetto to a lesser extent as their coach was a former Southeast assistant.
Reducing student enrollment also played a huge role in Southeast's decline on the football field as well. I'm not going to deny that their wasn't an under the radar effort to bring talent to Manatee in the past, allot of that element however is now gone. I cant speak for what Coach Booth's approach will be to keep Manatee viable long term, like I indicated earlier I like what I've seen from him in as far as over coming numerous obstacles that have been thrown at him last year and this year. I however have concerns about he program moving forward..........TWC249 says the JV teams improvement this year is directly related to a freshman influence..........we'll have to wait and see what develops with the passing of time?
Go Canes Go!
Go Canes Go!
In Joe Kinnan's 2 or 3 years, the freshman and JV were undefeated or maybe had 1 loss and the Varsity was on the same path. All three teams were stacked with athletes and in numbers. I'm not judging the program on the lower level teams but it does speak to the future of the program. Booth is not going to duplicate what Joe accomplished but I can see them winning district titles and going a couple rounds deep year in and year out.
Joe is a legend and we you can't duplicate that. Braden River is moving right along pretty good without playing Manatee, but I would like to see them play. I think this year is the only year that Braden River would actually win. I think they can go all the way if Raymond Thomas can stay healthy.
Raymond Thomas played an entire JV season with Manatee, then transferred to Braden River...........why??? Because he wanted to play now and Braden River offered him that opportunity....starting TB at Palmetto this year was at Manatee that saw him get Varsity playing time..and to me that could sum up how easy its become to move school to school.
Go Canes Go!
Short & Sweet
Questions? Go to "Barnes & Noble" with $19.95 and buy a copy of "Logic 101 for Morons".
That's always going to be the case. Majority of the top teams have players that are not originally in their district but ended up at their school by using school choice, move to the district, or anything other means that is legal. That is high school football "recruiting." It is what it is. Best players want to play for the best teams and the best recruiting tool is winning games.
