Don't do it Darter; the man ( Wave ) is a professional. 1K is a week's stripper pole action for that high roller. Some kid's libel to get a knee cap broke to insure victory. You're white collar, Wave is straight up street, down and dirty, no play, play....
Venice 43 East Lake 14 Final
- Thread starter gatorman001
- Start date
Don't worry Dan, I won't I have learned the hard way, you don't bet against the Wave Index's picks! But Venice is a good team, for real! No Viera in them.
Good, you're a nose to the grindstone type, conservative and sound, prudent investments dot your portfolio. That Cat is high risk, high return.The money is secondary. The "action" is what warms his blood.
I've never seen Venice play live so I'm really looking forward to seeing what they bring.
I am thinking Venice may need to put 40 points on the board to win this game. Venice has done that at will in all but one game the entire year. The problem for Venice is no one has even put 30 on STA this year, including Bishop Gorman with 3 OTs. It will be hard to convince me Venice is close to the level of Bishop Gorman. Cocoa is a damn good team, and Bishop Gorman ate them for lunch. I get it, I understand everybody wants to see The Empire fall but this LaRoche kid is not going to cause major problems for STA. He will have some nice plays but I doubt he breaks anything big...
I doubt there will be any overcompensating, panic mode or heavy adjustments made....LaRoche is a great player but STA has a stable full of Matt LaRoches they practice against. Watched lots of highlights and film of LaRoche and some of those defenses he was facing looked a little slow to me. That kind of speed will not be jaw-dropping to the Raiders. If Laroche is "Speedy", I have know idea what 2015 STAs Sam Bruce would be called. To Laroche's credit he is a very natural and fluid runner and I think he has a solid future ahead of him....I just think STA will contain him well on Friday.
I'll be surprised if Venice gets a push in the middle on STA and there are certain defenses in SFL that even the best RBs rarely can turn a corner on.
STA's OL is also huge like Braden River but now factor in the waves of RBs STA has and they may gut the Venice DL like they have not seen this year.
I hope we get a great game...I have heard great things about them, am curious and excited to watch the dynamic Venice team play. I believe they could make the game interesting, but I'll be very surprised if they have more points then STA when the clock runs out.
I am thinking Venice may need to put 40 points on the board to win this game. Venice has done that at will in all but one game the entire year. The problem for Venice is no one has even put 30 on STA this year, including Bishop Gorman with 3 OTs. It will be hard to convince me Venice is close to the level of Bishop Gorman. Cocoa is a damn good team, and Bishop Gorman ate them for lunch. I get it, I understand everybody wants to see The Empire fall but this LaRoche kid is not going to cause major problems for STA. He will have some nice plays but I doubt he breaks anything big...
I doubt there will be any overcompensating, panic mode or heavy adjustments made....LaRoche is a great player but STA has a stable full of Matt LaRoches they practice against. Watched lots of highlights and film of LaRoche and some of those defenses he was facing looked a little slow to me. That kind of speed will not be jaw-dropping to the Raiders. If Laroche is "Speedy", I have know idea what 2015 STAs Sam Bruce would be called. To Laroche's credit he is a very natural and fluid runner and I think he has a solid future ahead of him....I just think STA will contain him well on Friday.
I'll be surprised if Venice gets a push in the middle on STA and there are certain defenses in SFL that even the best RBs rarely can turn a corner on.
STA's OL is also huge like Braden River but now factor in the waves of RBs STA has and they may gut the Venice DL like they have not seen this year.
I hope we get a great game...I have heard great things about them, am curious and excited to watch the dynamic Venice team play. I believe they could make the game interesting, but I'll be very surprised if they have more points then STA when the clock runs out.
I don't know the "big slow" kid you are talking about . They don't really have any what would call "big" RBs to my knowledge that run the ball that much. STA's biggest back is probably 2018 Samuel Llewellyn and probably in the 200 lb range but he doesn't run the ball that much. I would guess no more than 40 carries this year.
2017 Mike Epstein by far gets the bulk of the carries on the team, 2017 Kyshaun Bryan probably second and 2019 Daniel Carter probably the third most this year (perhaps that is who you are referring to?).
STA does indeed have burners on the bench, all being underclassman but it is hard to see the field when you have 4 RBs with BCS offers ahead of you...
I don't think it would be a huge upset if Venice won. I think the 10 - 14 number floating around here could happen. Since I will be attending the game I hope it does happen. I want to see a great one but the facts are people very few can hang with STA in their house. Some were saying they thought this Dwyer team had a shot but we saw how that turned out.
Unless Venice can get STA to change their defense like BTW did earlier this year , Venice has no shot.. That game was the first time I've seen STA ever we 3 down linemen over 75 to 80% of the game worrying about BTW attack and STA couldn't stop that... I say let Venice line up 5 wide all day and go all out.. With that said I got STA winning by whatever number you want...
I was referring to Epstein. saw him twice and i gelt likr the guys behind him were more explosive.
I would not call Epstein slow or very big. He is probably about 5'11ish, 185 lbs but calling him slow is pushing it IMO. According to Scout recruiting, Epstein has a verified 4.41. I would comfortably say he is 4.5 range. Epstein's verified SH run is 4.09 which is ridiculously quick and you rarely see someone being slow running a 4.09 shuttle. Maybe I'm missing something...
I think perhaps the film you are watching of Epstein is the difference in the speed in a few SFL defenses versus say what Venice RB Matt "Speedy" LaRoche is running against. Let Mike Epstein run against those defenses and he may look a little faster to you.
I think perhaps the film you are watching of Epstein is the difference in the speed in a few SFL defenses versus say what Venice RB Matt "Speedy" LaRoche is running against. Let Mike Epstein run against those defenses and he may look a little faster to you.
Talked to Wave last night and he was pretty excited about this wager. He said he would probably bypass the Hard Rock on his way to Orlando next week to collect his winnings.
Only seen him twice. Maybe not slow but he looks like a pretty much straight line runner... not much wiggle in the 2 games I saw. and he didn't have any breakout runs so I didn't get to see this 4.4 speed. But you have seen them more and against lesser comp so I'll take your word for it.
Also I am not a Venice guy and wasn't comparing Epstein to LaRoche. Haven't even seen LaRoche except for a few highlights just heard he was fast. Just when I saw Epstein against BTW and Goreman he didn't seem very quick to me and I didn't see him get to top end speed at all. The kid behind him looked like the burner or more agile guy. If you have some highlights you can provide so I Can see this quicnkness and speed I welcome that.
Oh and BTW... Alot of kids have a Nike/Scout/Rivals Verified 4.3, 4.4 etc yet for some reason when the NFL combine comes around these same kids have gotten slower... I rarely believe HS 40 times they are all for hype. YOu know fast is fast when you see it on the field.
I hear ya....
Yeah, that actually can happen. The focus of a few extra pounds to sacrifice a tenth of a second can be a priority for some players. If you are already super fast but need weight for the NFL, you can sometimes make the sacrifice ( same when you go from HS to the NCAA). The other thing you got to remember is there are more HS players playing than college and more college players playing than NFL. Once you filter out the "track" guys the times overall 40 times are going to get slower.
For example. Jeffrey Demps a few years back a at South Lake HIgh School, then a Gator and a stint with the NFL.
I would be willing to bet the top 5 NCAAF players are generally faster than the top 5 NFL combined right now.
Most guys probably reach peak speeds at 17 - 23 years old. Once you start putting on that "grown man" weight, you sometimes begin to slow down.
The NIKE SPARQ and Electronic clocks are pretty accurate. You can cheat with hand timing, hard to cheat a laser beam.
Actually you can cheat with electronic timing but that would be a bit of a scandal.
Also Track guys aren't always the best in the 40. Guy like Trayvon Bromwell when he played for Gibbs he was running 10.3, 10.2 100 meters but his 40 time was like a 4.4 they get stronger in the 2nd half of the race.
Back to Epstein. I Just didn't see the speed in those 2 games. He seemed like a straight line power runner. I thought the other guy Bryan I think was more agile faster. You have seen them waaayyy more than me though so I will take your word.
Also Track guys aren't always the best in the 40. Guy like Trayvon Bromwell when he played for Gibbs he was running 10.3, 10.2 100 meters but his 40 time was like a 4.4 they get stronger in the 2nd half of the race.
Back to Epstein. I Just didn't see the speed in those 2 games. He seemed like a straight line power runner. I thought the other guy Bryan I think was more agile faster. You have seen them waaayyy more than me though so I will take your word.
Bryan is probably a bit faster and I understand what you mean. Epstein is utilized more as the straight-line runner and he may get more carries with the way STA's offense is structured.
Tell me how to cheat with electronic timing. How do you cheat a laser beam? Wear a thermogenic suit? Seriously, I would like to know how some people chat the electronic clock...
I didn't say it was a rampant issue or if its even ever happened. Like I said if someone like Nike or Rivals were doing this it would be a scandal. It can be done though if you're the person behind the calibrator... a couple of hundredths of seconds adjustments here or there really easy to do to be honest.
Ain't gonna happen, Mark. Wave ain't gonna get his hand in my pocket over this game's result. Venice, as you know, is a very good high school team. In fact they would probably win 8A hands down and would have a very decent shot at 5A and 6A in that order.
That said, till they beat St. Thomas, St. Thomas is St. Thomas. I expect them to bring their best and not Viera it out. But in the end, without a fair amount of luck, it's gonna be very difficult for them to win this game.
The STA crowd was pretty surprised when Charlotte beat them for the Regional title in 2002, particularly my old favorite coach, Don Shula, who told the Sun Sentinel that he wouldn't be making the trip to Punta Gorda, and would wait and watch his grandson play the next week.
@ Silver King , I hope you are right. I am going to the game and am excited to see if this Venice team (win or lose) is as advertised. There are public schools in SFL almost every year that go toe-to-toe or sometimes beat STA. If this Venice team is a special group, I don't see why they can't make a game of it or perhaps pull the upset. I have not seen a school wreck everything in their path in a season like Venice has overall this year. Not even BTW who beat STA this year, and lost in the 3rd round of the 4A playoffs to a very good Cocoa team.
No doubt about it Darter, Daytona Dan hit the nail right on the head. No body in the world put the action in better than Wavebb. You should be in a casino whenever he splits 5's in blackjack. The man a genius. His timing is impeckable!
Venice has a decent chance but I wouldn't bet on them. If Philip Dorsett was still playing for STA and promised to drop 2 easy TD passes like he did against Plant I might take those 14 points. You made the right decision.
That's why you play the games, teams like Venice and Charlotte, who've played in usually the best classifications in Florida for the last 20 years or so, don't get these opportunities very often - it's a long way looking up at "magnet" teams ranked nationally most of that time like STA, BTW, the Wood, Miami Northwestern, etc . Sometimes two or three from your bracket were in the Top Ten.
You look forward to such opportunities, its the only way to approach it. You play the game to win and once in awhile the ball bounces your way and it can turn out good, no matter how damn good another team is supposed to be.
Wave you was a little kid but remember that 68 or 69 Naples Team? Two high school All-Americans, 9-0, rolled everyone up, get to the last game of the year against a sorry 0-9 North Ft Myers team and they went down in flames. That was the biggest upset in SW Fl, until Charlotte/STA.
You look forward to such opportunities, its the only way to approach it. You play the game to win and once in awhile the ball bounces your way and it can turn out good, no matter how damn good another team is supposed to be.
Wave you was a little kid but remember that 68 or 69 Naples Team? Two high school All-Americans, 9-0, rolled everyone up, get to the last game of the year against a sorry 0-9 North Ft Myers team and they went down in flames. That was the biggest upset in SW Fl, until Charlotte/STA.
Face it. There are some teams like STA that just aren't going to lose come playoff time. They are too stacked. Too recruited. Too supported by $ and large staffs.
Anything can happen, but STA will likely beat Venice.
As I've stated a million times over, we need to separate the private schools. They can go recruit who they want. I don't care. But they should have to play each other.
Anything can happen, but STA will likely beat Venice.
As I've stated a million times over, we need to separate the private schools. They can go recruit who they want. I don't care. But they should have to play each other.
181, if Jesuit, TC, and Berkely recruited every player worth a darn in Tampa South Tampa included and Plant Armwood were left with scraps you might not want to see that game anymore as you might as well go see a JV game.... Just food for thought.
Dunedin has been hit hard like that.. YOu think I been to my alma maters game in like 6 years?
Dunedin has been hit hard like that.. YOu think I been to my alma maters game in like 6 years?
Agreed, I remember thining ehh this Epstein kid wont play, with all the other studs on the team. BUT let me tell you he's not only much faster than I imagined, but he just has that burst and vision. Seems he's always finding that opening. He proved me dead wrong. He's STA's best back IMO.
His older brother (Danny) was a great RB at Cypress Bay and I believe graduated in 2011. You can see on film, does not appear to have the speed of his younger brother Mike but very good vision. He went on to play at FCS Colgate. Their dad played at UM back in the day...
Looks like 4.5 to 4.6 to me but keep in mind beyond popular belief most kids in high school dont run 4.6 or faster.
Runs very upright which to my earlier point makes him look bigger than he is perhaps why with not seeing him in person i thought he was bigger.
Runs very upright which to my earlier point makes him look bigger than he is perhaps why with not seeing him in person i thought he was bigger.
I thought Rainey ran a 4.36 at the NFL combine (unless he cheated the clock as well):
http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Chris&l=Rainey&i=9760
You may very well be right with times being incorrect at the combines but I think they would be incorrect for all. I don't think the digital clocks and lasers and the people setting them up pick and choose who they will shade a tenth or two of a second off.
Jordan Scarlett from STA two years ago ran a 4.38 at the Nike Sparq combine and was 5-11 , 210lbs.
If Epstein is one of, or the fastest players on STA right now I don't think sub 4.5 range is out of the possibility....
Sometimes the level of competition can make RBs looks fast as well.. Take a look at this RB that supposedly runs high 4.5 low 4.6 range. I happen to think Epstein is faster than him though... What do you think this RB runs:
http://www.hudl.com/profile/1424874/massimo-gamble
Jordan Scarlett from STA two years ago ran a 4.38 at the Nike Sparq combine and was 5-11 , 210lbs.
If Epstein is one of, or the fastest players on STA right now I don't think sub 4.5 range is out of the possibility....
Sometimes the level of competition can make RBs looks fast as well.. Take a look at this RB that supposedly runs high 4.5 low 4.6 range. I happen to think Epstein is faster than him though... What do you think this RB runs:
http://www.hudl.com/profile/1424874/massimo-gamble
If Epstein is one of the fastest on the team then perhaps he has better track speed than football speed. I think its his form when he runs that makes him look not as fast on the football field to me.
Kid I know CJ Cottman played at a smaller school much like Gamble but I know for fact from knowing him and working with him since he was in youth league he is a legit 4.4 guy and on a good day maybe even 4.3 but doubt that. He is football fast and has dominated since his Freshman year. Similar size as Epstein 5.11 185 but to me he looks smaller on film but it's because of how he runs.
Thoughts?
Kid I know CJ Cottman played at a smaller school much like Gamble but I know for fact from knowing him and working with him since he was in youth league he is a legit 4.4 guy and on a good day maybe even 4.3 but doubt that. He is football fast and has dominated since his Freshman year. Similar size as Epstein 5.11 185 but to me he looks smaller on film but it's because of how he runs.
Thoughts?
