New point system: points teams already have
- Thread starter 307mac
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Just looked over the 7A only. Those points look to be for teams that made the playoffs last year.
I believe if you play a team that made the playoffs in 15,or 16 you get 3 bonus points
I think that is where these points seen on the master list have been added.
Again in 7A lowest I saw was 6 points highest 27 points.
The teams that have on their schedule only 2 teams making the playoffs have a very uphill battle.
In addition to the previous basic points, bonus points are awarded on the following basis:
Three bonus points will be awarded for scheduling and playing a team that participated in the playoffs the previous two year scheduling cycle (In 2015 OR 2016). Those bonus points will carry with you both years of the new two year scheduling cycle if the game is played both years.
Three bonus points will be given for scheduling and playing a team that finished in the top 25 end of the year Maxpreps or USAtoday final expert football rankings. These bonus points will carry with you both years of the new two year scheduling cycle if the game is played both years.
*The maximum bonus points a team can earn per game is 3.
Copied from FHSAA
Three bonus points will be awarded for scheduling and playing a team that participated in the playoffs the previous two year scheduling cycle (In 2015 OR 2016). Those bonus points will carry with you both years of the new two year scheduling cycle if the game is played both years.
Three bonus points will be given for scheduling and playing a team that finished in the top 25 end of the year Maxpreps or USAtoday final expert football rankings. These bonus points will carry with you both years of the new two year scheduling cycle if the game is played both years.
*The maximum bonus points a team can earn per game is 3.
Copied from FHSAA
Just to be clear, it is bonus for playing that team...
So if you lose to a 10-0 team, you would gain 30 points normally, but if they are a playoff team you gain 33 points, right?
If you play 10 games and average 30 points (with no bonuses), they don't then add 27 points on top of that for a total of 57. You would have had 300 points (30 avg*10 games) and then add 27 for a total of 327 and divided by number of games equals 32.7, right?
So if you lose to a 10-0 team, you would gain 30 points normally, but if they are a playoff team you gain 33 points, right?
If you play 10 games and average 30 points (with no bonuses), they don't then add 27 points on top of that for a total of 57. You would have had 300 points (30 avg*10 games) and then add 27 for a total of 327 and divided by number of games equals 32.7, right?
Exactly!!! Hardee already has 18 points..
But Booker has 21 points. Hardee didn't get any points from Booker but Booker gets 3 points for Hardee!!! That takes the cake...
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Bonus points just are a starting point. Then add up category wins and losses from there.
Towards the end of the season it will be nerve-racking doing the math.
Be the district champ and it wont matter. That would be goal number 1
Towards the end of the season it will be nerve-racking doing the math.
Be the district champ and it wont matter. That would be goal number 1
Win your district. That is the only sure way. But if you start with 6 points and don't win district, unless the teams you played had dramatic turnarounds, you are probably not going to the playoffs.
Can somebody explain this. A couple of us were talking about this and we need clarification. A number 1 seed does not play a rematch in the first round correct? Meaning, they will not play any team in their district the first round? What will happen if a district sends three teams and the DC from that District is seed 1 and another one ends up seed 8. So in the first round how will they adjust so the teams in the same district don't play each other in round 1 because Seed 1 will play Seed 8?
Hardee, I can't find that in the rules in the coaches manual.
5A-8A
(a) Playoff field will be made up of 32 teams in each class.
(b) 8 Qualifiers in each region. 4 District champions and 4 at large qualifiers. (see wildcard points)
(c) District Champions will earn a 1-4 seed based on wildcard points and at large qualifiers will receive a 5-8 seed based on wildcard points.
(d) Higher seed based on regular season wildcard point average will always host in regional tournament.
I also don't think you would be able to do that, let's just say that DC is #4 and another team from the same district is #5. According to the expectation, #4 should play #5, but with the idea that you suggest (can't play team in own district in 1st round), then #4 would play #6, thus giving them in theory an easier game. Or if #1 vs #8 and they are both in the same district, then the #1 play #7, thus a harder game. It becomes what is the point of being a district champ than if you end up playing a harder game just to avoid your district foe.
5A-8A
(a) Playoff field will be made up of 32 teams in each class.
(b) 8 Qualifiers in each region. 4 District champions and 4 at large qualifiers. (see wildcard points)
(c) District Champions will earn a 1-4 seed based on wildcard points and at large qualifiers will receive a 5-8 seed based on wildcard points.
(d) Higher seed based on regular season wildcard point average will always host in regional tournament.
I also don't think you would be able to do that, let's just say that DC is #4 and another team from the same district is #5. According to the expectation, #4 should play #5, but with the idea that you suggest (can't play team in own district in 1st round), then #4 would play #6, thus giving them in theory an easier game. Or if #1 vs #8 and they are both in the same district, then the #1 play #7, thus a harder game. It becomes what is the point of being a district champ than if you end up playing a harder game just to avoid your district foe.
I can already the kids won't understand this new system. I'm not really sure the coaches will either. Glad I don't work at FHSAA!
The kids don't need to understand this... The coaches and AD's do... The kids just need to focus on playing ball let the adults worry about this.
Yeah but they could have an outstanding season and still not make the playoffs over a team that started out with more points. How is that far?
Seems to me that the coaching staff has an obligation to schedule to begin with as many points as they possibly can. If they schedule cupcakes its on them not the kids. To be honest, once the bugs are worked out, I believe this new system will work pretty well.
Technically that could happen under the previous system... I have seen Districts with 2 teams not finish as champs but are 7-3 or 8-2 and miss the playoffs while adjacent districts will have a team be 6-4, 5-5, 4-6 and make hte playoffs. Also I have seen many many times a 10-0 9-1 8-2 team feast off of a weak schedule and get bounced in round 1.
Its as fair as the previous system.
Remember the discussions on here from back in the early 2000s after Port Charlotte made the playoffs as a runner up to us in a 3-team district with a 3-7 record? There were lots of teams south of us with better records that didn't go. It wasn't their fault, it was stupid for the FHSAA to have a 3-team district back during the "travel concern" days.
I don't thnk this system we're leaving happened till 1983 or so. I understand lots of state use points.
Florida used points back when I played. We were in the Coral Coast Conference that included Venice, Southeast, Palmetto, Naples, North Ft Myers, Cypress Lake and a few more. In 1970 and 71 we won the conference after our 10 game regular season. Then you went right to the Regional Championship where your opponent came who had enough points to win their district kicked in. We won the conference both years and played Tarpon Springs in 70 and Tampa Catholic in 71. The rest of those teams - some were pretty darn good with only one loss (Venice I believe both those years only had the loss we handed them) - got to watch.
I don't thnk this system we're leaving happened till 1983 or so. I understand lots of state use points.
Florida used points back when I played. We were in the Coral Coast Conference that included Venice, Southeast, Palmetto, Naples, North Ft Myers, Cypress Lake and a few more. In 1970 and 71 we won the conference after our 10 game regular season. Then you went right to the Regional Championship where your opponent came who had enough points to win their district kicked in. We won the conference both years and played Tarpon Springs in 70 and Tampa Catholic in 71. The rest of those teams - some were pretty darn good with only one loss (Venice I believe both those years only had the loss we handed them) - got to watch.
Just in the last 2 years I have seen 3 team district personally get it handed to them. I think the points system will help say a 3rd place team from a tougher district get in when in years past they are at home. It should also help with say the higher seeds playing games in semi finals rather than 2nd round matchups with opponents they have already seen.
You could also have good teams that lose 1-2 games that have made the playoffs year in and out miss out starting this year.
At this point win your district and you are in the drivers seat. Anything less is leaving your destiny in someone else's hands
You could also have good teams that lose 1-2 games that have made the playoffs year in and out miss out starting this year.
At this point win your district and you are in the drivers seat. Anything less is leaving your destiny in someone else's hands
Advantages and disadvantages. That about sums it up! At this point (not to pun), I think this system is going to be net better in the long run once the kinks are worked out.
I liked the simplicity of the old system. I believe the reason for 3 team districts has more to do with 8 Classifications than anything else. If they were to shrink the classifications, many of the problems would be solved. The FHSAA should "subsidize" district matches over 70 miles away if travel was a concern.
I am also the person who believes that in the era of open enrollment and school choice and "recruitment" that classifications based only on school size does not make sense. School success should force a team to move up a classification (Bolles, TC-Jax, Cocoa, American Heritage - Delray Beach, Glades Central), but also failure to move down to be more competitive (Forest Hills, Interlachen, Hialeah). After several years, the best teams would be in higher classifications. I know there are drawbacks.
I still don't buy the hype in the new system that we are going to get fantastic games every week. I still don't think teams are going to schedule really hard teams just for 3 points. Victories still count more and I would rather beat an 0-10 and get 35 points than lose to a 10-0 team and get 30 points (and maybe 3 bonus points for 33). I still think the average fan is going to be confused on whether they make the playoffs or not. I don't think the 1st round match-ups will be improved by a #1 seed playing a #8 seed.
Despite all that, I will give this a new system a chance to deliver on many of the promises. I have already created a working excel sheet for one of the Regions and Classifications to see if my numbers match with the FHSAAs. I also hope to compare what would have happened DC and Runner-up vs the seeding.
I am also the person who believes that in the era of open enrollment and school choice and "recruitment" that classifications based only on school size does not make sense. School success should force a team to move up a classification (Bolles, TC-Jax, Cocoa, American Heritage - Delray Beach, Glades Central), but also failure to move down to be more competitive (Forest Hills, Interlachen, Hialeah). After several years, the best teams would be in higher classifications. I know there are drawbacks.
I still don't buy the hype in the new system that we are going to get fantastic games every week. I still don't think teams are going to schedule really hard teams just for 3 points. Victories still count more and I would rather beat an 0-10 and get 35 points than lose to a 10-0 team and get 30 points (and maybe 3 bonus points for 33). I still think the average fan is going to be confused on whether they make the playoffs or not. I don't think the 1st round match-ups will be improved by a #1 seed playing a #8 seed.
Despite all that, I will give this a new system a chance to deliver on many of the promises. I have already created a working excel sheet for one of the Regions and Classifications to see if my numbers match with the FHSAAs. I also hope to compare what would have happened DC and Runner-up vs the seeding.
I agree, Gatorman! And, as we discussed in another thread, preseason polls are worthless. So aren't these points based on preseason polls and how far you went in the playoffs in prior years? But most of the players who contributed to that success may have graduated.
The best system I saw were larger districts. Fewer teams go to the playoffs from the area but the winners deserve to be there.
The best system I saw were larger districts. Fewer teams go to the playoffs from the area but the winners deserve to be there.
Thanks for both links Tony. Like others, I'm skeptical of the new system, but the old one was far from perfect. Hopefully the FHSAA will have some number guys available at the conclusion of the regular season. Your fav team could be in at 9 games, then out after 10th game if many of your in season opponents fall in final regular season contest and it effectively downgrades your previous winning points. Hope that wasn't too damn confusing
Hypothetical Nightmare Scenario: 6A Region 4
1st Round-all district champions(#1- #4) play at home
#8 Sabastian River(7-3) at #1 Miami Central(10-0)
#5 Miami Northweastern(9-1) at #4 Palm Bay Heritage(10-0)
#6 Miami Carol City(8-2) at #3 Dillard(8-2)
#7 Miami Norland (7-3) at #2 Mainland(10-0)
1st Round-all district champions(#1- #4) play at home
#8 Sabastian River(7-3) at #1 Miami Central(10-0)
#5 Miami Northweastern(9-1) at #4 Palm Bay Heritage(10-0)
#6 Miami Carol City(8-2) at #3 Dillard(8-2)
#7 Miami Norland (7-3) at #2 Mainland(10-0)
Are district winners seeded 1-4 ?
Can a 9-1 district runner up MNW host 10-0 district winner PB Heritage if the Bulls have more end of season points ?
Can a 9-1 district runner up MNW host 10-0 district winner PB Heritage if the Bulls have more end of season points ?
Lol ,it will be interesting to see how this turns out,imagine pulling for the teams yours beats hoping they win 8 or 9 games.
Thanks for both links Tony. Like others, I'm skeptical of the new system, but the old one was far from perfect. Hopefully the FHSAA will have some number guys available at the conclusion of the regular season. Your fav team could be in at 9 games, then out after 10th game if many of your in season opponents fall in final regular season contest and it effectively downgrades your previous winning points. Hope that wasn't too damn confusing
Dan
You are right, it is one of the reasons why I don't like the system as too much depends on what I have no control over.
If they pay me, I will gladly do it. I am sure more experienced people like Laz and Joe Pinko and others could do it as well. The key to doing this successfully is updating it weekly. If they wait to the last two weeks, it will be too much of a chore and be full of errors.
No, district winners are seeded 1-4 and then by wildcard points. 5-8 is the next 4 teams in the region by wildcard points. If you are a district champ with 40 points, but a district runner-up has 45 points. District champ still seeded higher and keeps home field advantage.
Thanks gatorman. I see teething problems associated with this extensive change. And rooting for all your in season opponents is UnAmerican
I agree... It is already creating more interesting regular season matchups. Just looking at the school I follow now Clearwater the HC went out of his way even getting the booster club to help with the transpo funds (county does not pay for out of county regular season transportation) and scheduled Braden River and Mitchell 2 playoff teams from a year ago in which they have never played.
In past years you just take your county schedule and go with the same old same old matchups.
Interested to see how teams approach the September rain-outs/postponements/cancellations against non-district teams. In the past these contests were rarely made up.
I would think it must. For instance, hypothetically Lake Brantley is fighting for 2nd place in their district. Let's say they have a regular season game against non-district Apopka which gets postponed due to storms. if they do not make up this game, Brantley misses out on some serious points....possibly knocking them out of the playoffs....even if they lose. Serious impact.
I am not sure of that Laz, it will depend on how many points that Lake Brantley has already.
For example, if Lake Brantley had played 9 games and was already averaging 35 points, a win over a 9-0 Apopka would give them 50 points (53 with bonus), but still only bring them up 1.5 points to 36.5 (maybe 36.8 if you count bonus points). If they lose to a 9-0 Apopka, they drop to 34.5 points, a loss of .5.
If they were averaging 40 points over 9 games and beat a 9-0 Apopka (50 point game, or 53 with bonus) brings them up to 41 points (41.3 with bonus). If they lose to a 9-0 Apopka, they drop to 39.
If I am Lake Brantley, I definitely play Apopka if I have 35 points as I probably need those extra points, but I am averaging 40 points, I probably skip it.
For example, if Lake Brantley had played 9 games and was already averaging 35 points, a win over a 9-0 Apopka would give them 50 points (53 with bonus), but still only bring them up 1.5 points to 36.5 (maybe 36.8 if you count bonus points). If they lose to a 9-0 Apopka, they drop to 34.5 points, a loss of .5.
If they were averaging 40 points over 9 games and beat a 9-0 Apopka (50 point game, or 53 with bonus) brings them up to 41 points (41.3 with bonus). If they lose to a 9-0 Apopka, they drop to 39.
If I am Lake Brantley, I definitely play Apopka if I have 35 points as I probably need those extra points, but I am averaging 40 points, I probably skip it.
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