WAKE UP FHSAA

[Keepingitrealinsrq]

When will the FHSAAwake up? I beleive we have them in place so they can create an even playing field. Well, they have failed miserably. All the AD's, head coaches, Pricipals and elected officials need to get together and make a change in leadership. Look at our state champions, they are dominated by private schools that recruit.
1A- no Private schools involved
2A- private school (university school) 61-16 yes 61-16 Thats with a running clock!!!!!!
3A- This class is real interesting. 13 out of the 16 teams in the play-offs are all private schools WOW!!!, but Trinity wins 30-3
4A- BTW WINS AGAIN!!!!!! And guess what it's the 3rd different coach in 5 years, so it ain't the coaching. But, at least it wasn't a private school, like Bolles who is in the class and has the record for championships
5A- Bishop Moore, PRIVATE!!!!!
6A- MIAMI CENTRAL vs ARMWOOD ok these schools are not private but, check this out ARMWOOD has played in 5 of the last 6 STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! CENTRAL HAS WON 5 of the last 6
7A- STA 45-10 running clock just like last year. Give me a break any one with 1/4 of a brain would know that STA should not be allowed to compete with public schools.
8A- this class along with 1A are the only classes involved in the FHSAA that play on a level playing field

 

[LemmyKilmister]

Private schools should be in their own classification.

 

[307mac]

An innovator in the arena of elite football training, IMG Academy produces bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter football players. From youth football camps available year-round to our prestigious high school football team that has garnered a national ranking in 2014 and 2015, as well as dozens of D-I placements, IMG Academy -- dubbed "the nation's top high school football facility" -- is the premier destination for complete development. - Hulk Hogan quote,whatcha gonna do when FHSAA let us join a classification.

 

[181pl]

I've got similar posts on bcp and nationalhsfootball.com. Time to separate. Private recruiting factories have totally flipped the field in their favor. They can compete with each other. Post playoff open bowl between the best two teams regardless of public or private status should also be on the table like in California.

 

[FLABOY941]

I think private schools and public schools can play during the regular season as non-district games but they shouldn't compete with public schools when it comes to playoffs. I do think there are pros and cons to that also.

 

[181pl]

Agreed. But it's time to separate otherwise for districts an classifications. I like the open bowl to determine the best team at the end, at the invitation of the sponsor or the FHSAA.

 

[Hwy17]

There's another thread below that has some discussion on this. At the same time that a handfull of privates dominate their respected classes, a large number of privates feel they can't compete and formed their own class. Then you have school choice in larger counties that has basically made recruiting, even by public schools, pretty much legal as long as its called something else.

Remember when Armwood was investigated for recruiting and had to forfeit their state title? FHSAA investigators nearly got sued because of how they handled the issue, interrogating students without their parents and snooping around people's homes. FHSAA knows this and so, rather than admit it was handled poorly, they have gone to giving a blind eye to what is happening.

Remember when Lakeland and Aquinas were meeting in the finals every year? Lakeland beat them 3 times straight. All the public schools in Polk/Central Florida was accusing Lakeland of recruiting because they had so many transfers. Lakeland isn't getting those transfers anymore, so they aren't going to the finals anymore.

 

[181pl]

Not the case anymore in Tampa for teams like Plant. Their academics place them over capacity. No school choice. An underpopulated c or d school like Armwood benefits from school choice in their cluster. The best ball platers in the cluster can go there. And nobody should blame them for doing so.

 

[TCMan]

Interesting thoughts on this thread......In reality, the separation of public and privates has already occurred in 3A. Class 3A is basically an all-private school classification, so having 13 of 16 teams in the playoffs be private isn't a "Wow" , it's expected (I think there are only 3 or 4 public schools in the whole classification). Personally, I like what one poster suggested on another thread - Move the 4 or so public schools from 3A up to 4A and drop the privates from 4A down to 3A.

 

[riverrat1961]

What would that give 4A around 38 teams? Almost what they have now with 40.

 

[Silver King]

This is just the initial step in many schools, public and private eventually doing away with football from a benefit analysis point of view. Lots of other issues at play two like concussions.

Of course it will deny many students an opportunity to compete, and probably also, teams and regions will settle out and perhaps be more a little more competitive.

Notice how Louisiana just about did away with Public schools after Katrina?

 

[GetBackCoach]

This all sounds great in theory but what class should the public schools that recruit be assigned to?

 

[181pl]

To the one that isn't eligible for a championship.

Enforce the rules. Screw the privates. Start a public only organization with rules that are enforced. That way the taxpayer $ is only going to public schools. Private schools can have their own org and enforce their own rules.

 

[anon_00zx5879k0jmw]

To be honest folks I have this funny feeling that FHSAA will be obsolete in the near future because I believe some smart people will start their own league and get out of FHSAA's crap league. No private school should be in the same league as public. Yes they can play each other but they should not be in the same district or even classes as public. Folks need to get smart and do one or two things. If all schools go independent then FHSAAs hands will then be tied and I think they will listen. OR some folks need to start their own league. If just TWO schools would start this I can promise you others will follow suit.

 

[Bradentonian]

The problem is under the current rules Independent Leagues can only play 11 games max. 10 regular season and a bowl game. No post season playoff allowed.

 

[Hokie Hey]

I do not believe there is any easy solution to the obvious issue concerning the current state of competitiveness in Florida High School football but I will attempt to lay out a basic framework that i believe would level the playing field for all considerably.

First of all as many have previously stated, there should be two private school classes large and small and they should do whatever they want in competing for their championships (kinda' like now). Looking at the 4 previous classes at St Thomas Aquinas they have 60 division 1 signees in football. Think about that for a moment, that means that when they hit the playoffs and can only dress 60 kids that it is entirely possible that every dressed team member could be an eventual Division 1 football player. How many division 1 signees do you think Viera has had over the past 4 years? Not that many I'd bet and it showed as Viera was completely outclassed in that game through no fault of their own. STA could have scored 100 if they wanted. STA is basically a Division 1 prep school that operates under an entirely different set of rules than the 80 or so publics schools that they compete with for the 7a championship. This is like Alabama playing North Dakota State for the National Championship. North Dakota State has a heck of a football team but they are NOT going to compete with Alabama.

Secondly, STA and other private schools are not the only teams that physically outclasses the majority of their opponents. If you look at both Booker T and Miami Central (just a couple examples off the top) there is no way that anyone can believe that the accumulation of talent at those two schools comes directly from their districts. I am not saying that they are doing ANYTHING wrong just saying that it is not possible to have that many super studs that organically attend any American high school. For the public schools with excessive transfers (number of transfers negotiable here)or that are part of a School District that has open enrollment these schools should be in their own class- Public Open.

Now the rest of the public schools that are in a school district that does not have open enrollment and that do not carry X number of transfer students on their football team, these schools would be separated into 4 additional classes according to their student enrollment.

This is what it could look like:

5A- Public Open (regardless of student population)
4A- Public 2,750 -UP limited transfers
3A- Public 1,750-2,750 limited transfers
2A- Public 850-1,750 limited transfers
1A- Public 0-849 limited transfers
Disclaimer: I just threw these numbers out there as an example, obviously they would need to be adjusted to get the classes as even in numbers as possible

Large Private
Small Private

Obviously this solution is not water tight or without it's issues but I think that it could be a good start to a much more competitive state of high school football. With the National hype surrounding high school football and recruiting (especially Florida) the era of the super-team in Florida high school football is not ever going to go away. We just need a place for both the "super-team" as well as the rest of us (regular folk) to compete for championships in a more competitive fashion allowing the average overachiever the same opportunity as the super stars. It's still high school football and should be treated as such.

 

[peezy28]

What rules do independents have to follow?

Also for most counties its not "if 2 schools start this" because the individual schools do not even have a say so in the matter it goes to the County... My guess in any Metropolitan area that is the case... I know it is for Hillsborough, PInellas, Pasco, so I assume it does for all other large counties where the Bulk of the schools are...

If all of the 1 or 2 school counties decided to strike and leave the FHSAA that probably would not be near enough to make them change.

 

[TCMan]

To the one that isn't eligible for a championship.

Enforce the rules. Screw the privates. Start a public only organization with rules that are enforced. That way the taxpayer $ is only going to public schools. Private schools can have their own org and enforce their own rules.

Most private schools would have no problem with a large and small private-only classification within the FHSAA. In fact, 3A basically represents a small private classification already as all but 3 or 4 schools are private. In reality, it would be much more simple for the privates to form their own association, allowing for the dues and fees to benefit the private member schools across the board. Private school parents are taxpayers too. We pay taxes that also go to fund public schools and public school sports associations like the FHSAA, yet don't have kids utilizing the public school system. It would be interesting to see how the FHSAA would react if all private schools started the process of leaving the FHSAA in order to form a private school association. I doubt this would curb the arguments and accusation of recruiting and unfair competitive advantages as super teams like BTW, Trenton and Central would still exist and thrive. It would just remove the privates from the discussion.

 

[riverrat1961]

Most private schools would have no problem with a large and small private-only classification within the FHSAA. In fact, 3A basically represents a small private classification already as all but 3 or 4 schools are private. In reality, it would be much more simple for the privates to form their own association, allowing for the dues and fees to benefit the private member schools across the board. Private school parents are taxpayers too. We pay taxes that also go to fund public schools and public school sports associations like the FHSAA, yet don't have kids utilizing the public school system. It would be interesting to see how the FHSAA would react if all private schools started the process of leaving the FHSAA in order to form a private school association. I doubt this would curb the arguments and accusation of recruiting and unfair competitive advantages as super teams like BTW, Trenton and Central would still exist and thrive. It would just remove the privates from the discussion.

Super teams like Trenton LOL I never thought i would hear that

 

[riverrat1961]

I do not believe there is any easy solution to the obvious issue concerning the current state of competitiveness in Florida High School football but I will attempt to lay out a basic framework that i believe would level the playing field for all considerably.

First of all as many have previously stated, there should be two private school classes large and small and they should do whatever they want in competing for their championships (kinda' like now). Looking at the 4 previous classes at St Thomas Aquinas they have 60 division 1 signees in football. Think about that for a moment, that means that when they hit the playoffs and can only dress 60 kids that it is entirely possible that every dressed team member could be an eventual Division 1 football player. How many division 1 signees do you think Viera has had over the past 4 years? Not that many I'd bet and it showed as Viera was completely outclassed in that game through no fault of their own. STA could have scored 100 if they wanted. STA is basically a Division 1 prep school that operates under an entirely different set of rules than the 80 or so publics schools that they compete with for the 7a championship. This is like Alabama playing North Dakota State for the National Championship. North Dakota State has a heck of a football team but they are NOT going to compete with Alabama.

Secondly, STA and other private schools are not the only teams that physically outclasses the majority of their opponents. If you look at both Booker T and Miami Central (just a couple examples off the top) there is no way that anyone can believe that the accumulation of talent at those two schools comes directly from their districts. I am not saying that they are doing ANYTHING wrong just saying that it is not possible to have that many super studs that organically attend any American high school. For the public schools with excessive transfers (number of transfers negotiable here)or that are part of a School District that has open enrollment these schools should be in their own class- Public Open.

Now the rest of the public schools that are in a school district that does not have open enrollment and that do not carry X number of transfer students on their football team, these schools would be separated into 4 additional classes according to their student enrollment.

This is what it could look like:

5A- Public Open (regardless of student population)
4A- Public 2,750 -UP limited transfers
3A- Public 1,750-2,750 limited transfers
2A- Public 850-1,750 limited transfers
1A- Public 0-849 limited transfers
Disclaimer: I just threw these numbers out there as an example, obviously they would need to be adjusted to get the classes as even in numbers as possible

Large Private
Small Private

Obviously this solution is not water tight or without it's issues but I think that it could be a good start to a much more competitive state of high school football. With the National hype surrounding high school football and recruiting (especially Florida) the era of the super-team in Florida high school football is not ever going to go away. We just need a place for both the "super-team" as well as the rest of us (regular folk) to compete for championships in a more competitive fashion allowing the average overachiever the same opportunity as the super stars. It's still high school football and should be treated as such.

1A need to be cut off around 550 to 600 Max and stick to it not 610 or 640

 

[TCMan]

Super teams like Trenton LOL I never thought i would hear that

Thought you might enjoy that RR ! What I meant by including them in the current "super teams" is that even if privates depart and form a separate association, public school teams will still appear, regardless of class, that are formidable and talent laden (BTW, Central). Trenton represents a team from Florida's smallest classification that is ranked within the Top 100 nationally (86) and number 7 in the state regardless of class. My point is that simply pulling the private schools out may not "level the field" as much as some may suspect or wish.

 

[Zoe Boy]

I do not believe there is any easy solution to the obvious issue concerning the current state of competitiveness in Florida High School football but I will attempt to lay out a basic framework that i believe would level the playing field for all considerably.

First of all as many have previously stated, there should be two private school classes large and small and they should do whatever they want in competing for their championships (kinda' like now). Looking at the 4 previous classes at St Thomas Aquinas they have 60 division 1 signees in football. Think about that for a moment, that means that when they hit the playoffs and can only dress 60 kids that it is entirely possible that every dressed team member could be an eventual Division 1 football player. How many division 1 signees do you think Viera has had over the past 4 years? Not that many I'd bet and it showed as Viera was completely outclassed in that game through no fault of their own. STA could have scored 100 if they wanted. STA is basically a Division 1 prep school that operates under an entirely different set of rules than the 80 or so publics schools that they compete with for the 7a championship. This is like Alabama playing North Dakota State for the National Championship. North Dakota State has a heck of a football team but they are NOT going to compete with Alabama.

Secondly, STA and other private schools are not the only teams that physically outclasses the majority of their opponents. If you look at both Booker T and Miami Central (just a couple examples off the top) there is no way that anyone can believe that the accumulation of talent at those two schools comes directly from their districts. I am not saying that they are doing ANYTHING wrong just saying that it is not possible to have that many super studs that organically attend any American high school. For the public schools with excessive transfers (number of transfers negotiable here)or that are part of a School District that has open enrollment these schools should be in their own class- Public Open.

Now the rest of the public schools that are in a school district that does not have open enrollment and that do not carry X number of transfer students on their football team, these schools would be separated into 4 additional classes according to their student enrollment.

This is what it could look like:

5A- Public Open (regardless of student population)
4A- Public 2,750 -UP limited transfers
3A- Public 1,750-2,750 limited transfers
2A- Public 850-1,750 limited transfers
1A- Public 0-849 limited transfers
Disclaimer: I just threw these numbers out there as an example, obviously they would need to be adjusted to get the classes as even in numbers as possible

Large Private
Small Private

Obviously this solution is not water tight or without it's issues but I think that it could be a good start to a much more competitive state of high school football. With the National hype surrounding high school football and recruiting (especially Florida) the era of the super-team in Florida high school football is not ever going to go away. We just need a place for both the "super-team" as well as the rest of us (regular folk) to compete for championships in a more competitive fashion allowing the average overachiever the same opportunity as the super stars. It's still high school football and should be treated as such.

In that case you wouldn't have no schools from the south fla...

 

[181pl]

Its a start. Separate them into two bodies. Let the public body enforce its rules and the private body enforce its rules, which would likely have some differences. If they want to intermingle in the regular season and a post playoff bowl, so be it.

 

[peezy28]

Y'all were a 1A super team my man.

 

[Hwy17]

To be honest folks I have this funny feeling that FHSAA will be obsolete in the near future because I believe some smart people will start their own league and get out of FHSAA's crap league. No private school should be in the same league as public. Yes they can play each other but they should not be in the same district or even classes as public. Folks need to get smart and do one or two things. If all schools go independent then FHSAAs hands will then be tied and I think they will listen. OR some folks need to start their own league. If just TWO schools would start this I can promise you others will follow suit.

HardeeWildcatFan: Been there, done that my friend. It was called the Heartland Conference and was made up of Hardee, DeSoto, Highlands, and Okeechobee counties but we were too small to have any effect. The subdivision of the smaller classes came after years of us fighting FHSAA but no good it did us. The 1986 Hardee team went 10-0 and beat Palmetto who went to the state finals. Many think that team could have won the state title but because we were independent we got nothing to show for it.

For the board members not familiar with what I'm talking about; our rural counties have a large number of migrant farm workers. We're forced to count them for enrollment, then they leave in the spring, so they get counted as drop outs. Our counties always have the highest drop out rates in Florida. In effect, we feel that we are forced to play up a class.

 

[Hwy17]

Its a start. Separate them into two bodies. Let the public body enforce its rules and the private body enforce its rules, which would likely have some differences. If they want to intermingle in the regular season and a post playoff bowl, so be it.

Texas does this! UIL, the governing board for Texas is for public schools. Private schools have their own association. Regular season games between public and private is allowed but its separate for playoffs and championships.

 

[GetBackCoach]

There are no rules anymore, just a left wing slap on the hand the bosses, a phony I'm sorry accused and you're good. Do what you want to win because it's highly unlikely that anyone has the GONADS (can I say that here?) to do anything about it in the end.

 

[Hokie Hey]

In that case you wouldn't have no schools from the south fla...

Why do you say that? Miami has open enrollment/school choice? No problem as they would just be in the "open" class. Can you imagine having STA, BTW, Central etc etc all playing for the same championship? That would be an AWESOME championship! Super teams vs Super teams would be much much more competitive than super team vs regular hs football team don't ya' think?

 

[Zoe Boy]

Why do you say that? Miami has open enrollment/school choice? No problem as they would just be in the "open" class. Can you imagine having STA, BTW, Central etc etc all playing for the same championship? That would be an AWESOME championship! Super teams vs Super teams would be much much more competitive than super team vs regular hs football team don't ya' think?

That's the thing.. You can go to anyschool down here if it's legal... Who said BTW MC are super teams? MC didn't even win their respective district and didn't run through teams and BTW had 5 l's this year.... I'm saying all the schools in Dade and broward and I guess palm beach would be in an open enrollment league and I gues you can add armwood to it too since their the only one keep repping 6a north and add cocoa and mainland....

 

[anon_00zx5879k0jmw]

HardeeWildcatFan: Been there, done that my friend. It was called the Heartland Conference and was made up of Hardee, DeSoto, Highlands, and Okeechobee counties but we were too small to have any effect. The subdivision of the smaller classes came after years of us fighting FHSAA but no good it did us. The 1986 Hardee team went 10-0 and beat Palmetto who went to the state finals. Many think that team could have won the state title but because we were independent we got nothing to show for it.

For the board members not familiar with what I'm talking about; our rural counties have a large number of migrant farm workers. We're forced to count them for enrollment, then they leave in the spring, so they get counted as drop outs. Our counties always have the highest drop out rates in Florida. In effect, we feel that we are forced to play up a class.

HWY17 we were independent because Coach Martin didn't want to travel to COCOA BEACH as part of their district and I don't blame him. FHSAA is such a political putz!!!! And that so called DOCTOR they have up there is ignorant as all get out (country slang for STUPID).

 

[Hokie Hey]

That's the thing.. You can go to anyschool down here if it's legal... Who said BTW MC are super teams? MC didn't even win their respective district and didn't run through teams and BTW had 5 l's this year.... I'm saying all the schools in Dade and broward and I guess palm beach would be in an open enrollment league and I gues you can add armwood to it too since their the only one keep repping 6a north and add cocoa and mainland....

I was calling them super teams by the fact that the two schools are 8 miles apart and have 8 state titles between them over the last 4 years. I was calling them super teams because when you look at them every kid gets an A plus on the eyeball test at every position. I was calling them super teams because when one kid goes down another kid that looks just like him (height weight eyeball test) steps right in without worry. Central lost to a national power in Dematha and a super team in the making in Carol City by 1 point (carol city jacked at every position). BookerTW had losses to 2 state champs and a team that lost in the semis to the eventual 8a state champ. Armwood is def in the same category (assembled talent), almost every kid looks like a blueprint for a D-1 commit on the hoof but against Central they were completely outclassed like Alabama playing GA southern, I'm not attacking the super team rather I'm saying that when talent is artificially assembled at specific locations for the purpose of winning championships that all the teams that assemble talent in that way should play each other for that championship. I think that makes for much more interesting and competitive matchups. The only joy in watching one of these mismatched championship games is rooting for the regular school with regular kids to upset one of these artificially stacked teams for the "Rudy" gets a sack feeling but the problem is that rarely happens and it's usually the opposite with the super team crushing the regular team into submission by the end of the first half. Super teams are here to stay and there is nothing that complaining about it is going to do, so lets let them all play each other and see which one is the best! While at the same time we can give some regular kids on regular teams the opportunity to win a championship as well.

 

[anon_00zx5879k0jmw]

Texas does this! UIL, the governing board for Texas is for public schools. Private schools have their own association. Regular season games between public and private is allowed but its separate for playoffs and championships.

If Private schools don't get public money then they need to be in their own league because we know for a FACT that FHSAA doesn't not enforce private school recruiting and please don't tell me they don't when just 3 years ago a staff member (I am not going to give out his name so don't ask) at AHP told me how they recruit players from south Florida. Now, if private schools are allowed to do this how come public schools can't? This is where I believe the line needs to be drawn and these private schools need to outlawed from giving "Scholarships" to student, period. They do this to attract football or basketball or baseball players, period. Or like the staff member stated to me "Yes the Coaches go out and recruit and go to players homes just like a college recruiter does"..

 

[Hokie Hey]

If Private schools don't get public money then they need to be in their own league because we know for a FACT that FHSAA doesn't not enforce private school recruiting and please don't tell me they don't when just 3 years ago a staff member (I am not going to give out his name so don't ask) at AHP told me how they recruit players from south Florida. Now, if private schools are allowed to do this how come public schools can't? This is where I believe the line needs to be drawn and these private schools need to outlawed from giving "Scholarships" to student, period. They do this to attract football or basketball or baseball players, period. Or like the staff member stated to me "Yes the Coaches go out and recruit and go to players homes just like a college recruiter does"..

Public Schools do it too and it's very difficult to stop so just let them do it only make them play each other.

 

[Hwy17]

HWY17 we were independent because Coach Martin didn't want to travel to COCOA BEACH as part of their district and I don't blame him. FHSAA is such a political putz!!!! And that so called DOCTOR they have up there is ignorant as all get out (country slang for STUPID).

For 1985-86 FHSAA was going to put us in a district with Bartow, Lake Wales, and some others schools that had nearly double our enrollment. 4 classes back then, and FHSAA was wanted us in 3a because of the migrants. We'd have nearly 200 "drop-outs" come spring so the argument was that we should be in 2a. FHSAA wouldn't listen, so we went independent. 1985 Hardee went 9-1 and 1986 was 10-0. After that, the public demanded we no longer stay independent.

 

[huntayo]

Send your ideas to the new football guy at FHSAA, former coach- he likes these conversations!

 

[Keepingitrealinsrq]

Send your ideas to the new football guy at FHSAA, former coach- he likes these conversations!

Who's the new football guy?

 

[307mac]

The list of transfers is so long Harriott couldn’t provide an exact number. His varsity roster, he said, is well over 100 players. He said some transfers have come in from as far away as Canada, Ireland, Haiti and Jamaica.

But the more familiar new additions include standout 2017 quarterback Jake Allen (Cardinal Gibbons), center Louie Berkowitz (American Heritage), running back James Charles (Coconut Creek), defensive end Nikolas Bonitto (University School) and Michael Irvin Jr., a 6-3, 220-pound senior tight end from Plano, Texas, whose Hall of Fame father starred at Aquinas.

“My Dad thinks this was the greatest move we could have made,” said Irvin Jr., who said he flew back into South Florida around 4 a.m. Monday for practice after attending the Ronda Rousey UFC fight in Brazil with his dad.

“I was going to switch to another school in Texas, but we decided to come here instead because it’s a better program. He thinks I’ll grow inside of it, and it will help me a lot before I go off to UM.

“I want to win a state title. The last two years in Texas our team lost in the final and it hurt. I need a ring.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/high-school/prep-broward/article29913523.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Hokie Hey]

2017 FHSAA 7A State champion St Thomas Aquinas vs the entire 7A field, who ya' got? What odds would you be willing to take? Think about that for a minute or two.

 

[Drummer61]

2017 FHSAA 7A State champion St Thomas Aquinas vs the entire 7A field, who ya' got? What odds would you be willing to take? Think about that for a minute or two.

Hokie, did you go to Va Tech and if so, when???

 

[Hokie Hey]

1995-1998