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Points-based Florida high school football playoff format moves forward

I don't know, who determines how many points each team is worth? Let's say they award a team max allowed points due to previous records then said team comes out and stinks it up and goes 2-8 and a team that has been losing pulls out a monster season however they have minimal points due to previous bad seasons. Just seems like someone will be left out due to scheduling then the next season no one wants to play them cause they don't give u max points.
 
I had that question also. There are areas with little press representation which hurts players trying to make All State. Will it also hurt them for points towards the playoffs?

People forget that there are counties with only one team. Large cities have one team per square mile. Big difference! And, that's why they definitely have to divide private from public.
 
They did explain how the teams points were made up on the previous releases.
 
There are areas with little press representation which hurts players trying to make All State. Will it also hurt them for points towards the playoffs?

do you think media will select the playoff teams? you amaze me every time you post.
 
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The last draft of the system that was posted would give you points based on a win or loss vs the overall record of the team for that season.

So you beat a 9-1 team that would earn more points that beating a 0-10 team.
Additionally, you lose to a 10-0 team that would earn more points than losing to a 1-9 team.

Additional things that were being floated around including "Bonus" points for playing a team in a large classification and playing a team that was a state-semi finalist or better the previous year.

So there is some objective standard.
I dislike the system overall. I just think the results on the field you are on should matter more than anything else. I think this system means games on fields that I am not watching/playing/coaching matter a great deal.
 
DPHS, the media make up the rankings, don't they? The article doesn't give all the information but I'd assume rankings would be part of the equation.

What's wrong with a team with a losing record making the playoffs? Did you look at their schedule? And now they are letting independents in the playoffs. Just give IMG the crown every year. No one else will have a chance in that class!

Why do they always think things need to change. If it ain't broke, don't screw it up!
 
Choctaw, they are not using media rankings in this equation at all.

A losing team really shouldn't make the playoffs when there are multiple 7-3 6-4 and even 8-2 teams missing the playoffs because they are in large competitive districts... There are teams that were 2-8 that made the playoffs because they were in 3 or even 2 team districts... This system will cut that out and it should

I am not sure how the Independent thing works... Maybe they are their own classification.
 
DPHS said:
wow. IMG will not be able to compete for the crown.
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DPHS,

Actually they will according to the latest proposal they said Independent teams will be able to compete in a state series... I don't know how that will work out but they said it.
 
peezy28 said:
I am not sure how the Independent thing works... Maybe they are their own classification.
Click to expand...

not many reasons to be independent now unless you are in a conference like the sunshine state athletic conference. I assume they will move the others back to the class they should be in.
 
I wonder how they will do out of state teams point totals. IMG will continue to have a schedule that has majority out of state teams as Florida teams are pulling out and not renewing these matchups.
 
they are not talking about teams like IMG or Montverde in basketball. They are talking about Monroe, Aucilla christian, Bishop Snyder, Cocoa Beach and teams like that
 
DPHS said:
they are not talking about teams like IMG or Montverde in basketball. They are talking about Monroe, Aucilla christian, Bishop Snyder, Cocoa Beach and teams like that
Click to expand...

Gotcha, just trying to figure out how they differentiate. Also didn't know Cocoa Beach went Indi.
 
Are points assessed after each game or at the end of the season? Just wondering how they would know in week 1 the team you beat goes 9-1. If it's at the end, do you have to sit and wait for a call to say you play next week at such and such? Just seems like there are to many variables. Just play it out on the field and do what's been working for years!
 
UHSTitan said:
Are points assessed after each game or at the end of the season? Just wondering how they would know in week 1 the team you beat goes 9-1. If it's at the end, do you have to sit and wait for a call to say you play next week at such and such? Just seems like there are to many variables. Just play it out on the field and do what's been working for years!
Click to expand...

You won't know until the end of the season. The argument becomes then every game matters until the end and you will want to schedule tough teams.
 
Boy these knuckle heads that created this format are just plain out dumb as a box of rocks. This was pretty much the system back in the 80s if I'm not mistaken, well somewhat the system. It didn't work then why would they think it would work now?
 
Choctaw_fan said:
Does this sound similar to the BCS?
Click to expand...

No not really, this will wait until the end of the season to assess who makes the playoffs. Basically they will need to have a bunch of math heads in a room with excel spreadsheets at the end of the year... I should totally apply for that job part time as I am an excel wiz.

The BCS was much different honestly
 
While we had BCS ranking after week 5, the only one that counted was the last one.

The most important thing is young students are involved. What ever decision is made, we need to make sure the kids are not hurt by it. I don't trust FHSAA to make the correct decision. For them, it's all about the money!
 
peezy28 said:
Choctaw, they are not using media rankings in this equation at all.

A losing team really shouldn't make the playoffs when there are multiple 7-3 6-4 and even 8-2 teams missing the playoffs because they are in large competitive districts... There are teams that were 2-8 that made the playoffs because they were in 3 or even 2 team districts... This system will cut that out and it should

I am not sure how the Independent thing works... Maybe they are their own classification.
Click to expand...


Truth be told there are several of sub .500 teams in the state that are playing in much better districts and harder scheduling:

Would you rather play the 2015 7A Reagan Storm (7-3) or 2015 7A Blanche Ely Tigers (2-9)? Who was the better team last year in reality? That said who was the more deserving team and who would represent a better playoff team 7 win Reagan or 2 win Ely? Ely was edged @ Dwyer last year in the playoffs - Reagan would have been raped @ Dwyer last year.

I can tell you who will likely have the better record over the next few years and I can clearly tell you who the better team is (regardless of record) over the next few years.
The opposing teams would fight over playing easy-money Reagan and avoid Ely at all cost. Who get's first dibs on Reagan and who gets screwed having to play Ely in the future?

The 6A Mitchell Mustangs (10-2 in 2015) could very well have a better record than the 6A Miami Northwestern Bulls (5-5 in 2015) over the next few years. I can tell you who the better team will be to infinity and beyond.

How about 2015 records in 5A you have a choice of playing 7-3 Lemon Bay, 3-6 Jackson or 3-6 Godby for future games? Sign me up for Lemon Bay for the next 3 years please - quickly! Easy$$$!

This system could turn into contract/bidding wars to play the cupcake teams in cupcake Districts around the state. Reagan, Mitchell and Lemon Bay's phones will be ringing of the hook!
No one will want to play the Elys, Jacksons or Miami Northwesterns of the FL HS Landscape though. Those teams would generally
run through some districts like a buzzsaw but do not have the fortune of a candyland schedule.
 
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Choctaw_fan said:
While we had BCS ranking after week 5, the only one that counted was the last one.

The most important thing is young students are involved. What ever decision is made, we need to make sure the kids are not hurt by it. I don't trust FHSAA to make the correct decision. For them, it's all about the money!
Click to expand...

Choc, the FHSAA are not going to decide who makes the playoffs based on opinion it will be strictly based on the teams they played and defeated or lost to. You get more points for beating teams with more wins and less points for beating teams win few wins and more points for scheduling higher division teams. Essentially a team that went like 9-1 or 10-0 but beat teams with like 5 combined wins may have issues against say a team who is 5-5 or 6-4 but they played teams who all have winning records. To be honest I am okay with this I have seen far too many undefeated teams (like MCC pasco and Pinellas teams) get trounced in the 1st round of the playoffs once they go out of county.
 
Yeah and I saw 4-5 Choctaw beat Lincoln then lose to Columbia in the Regional Finals. The next year they went 9-1 and lost in the first round. You can find examples either way.

So it will be all about who you schedule. That's not fair either.
 
only basing it on opponent wins is a mistake. Gateway and Dr Phillips were both 7-3, DP was 40 points better. They are not the same team. Not accounting for point differential is a mistake. A one point loss to Harmony is not the same as a one point loss to Mainland.

Lets say a team is 8A and had this schedule last year and had these results

1 Father Lopez 4-6 close win
2 Poinciana 0-10 close win
3 Cypress Creek 1-9 close win
4 Haines City 2-8 close win
5 Tavares 1-9 close win
6 Celebration 7-3 bad loss
7 Harmony 9-1 bad loss
8 Windemere Prep 7-3 close win
9 St Cloud 8-2 bad loss
10 Orlando Christian Prep 9-1 close win

This team went 7-3 and would get 375 points based on the point total. This would probably put them around a 6-8 seed in their region and they would make the playoffs.
 
I don't know folks.. good bad or indifferent I Think the current system sucks... Maybe y'all like it but I sure do hear a lot of griping about the current system.

I think whenever your planning on making mass change to a system (no matter outdated or not) it will raise lots of issues and gripes. No system is perfect. I have experienced this many times in my occupation when we change ERP systems.
 
The point of the change was to end the 2-8 teams making the playoffs while 7-3 teams sit home.

Also to try to add competition as the average margin of victory was something like 21 points the last few years and lets not even talk about the state finals blowouts that have become a constant.

Even still I think this may make earlier round playoff games more competitive (I have seen so many lopsided games in early rounds) but the end results probably won't change...Right now Each Class is ruled by a select few teams.
 
Also I think they want to make ever game count instead of the 1 to 3 lame duck games.
 
Peezy,

Just curious, how does the new system fix the problems of the old?
Many of the problems that are referenced with the current system still seem likely to exist in the new system to me.

How does putting a #1 seed vs a #8 seed solve the blowout problem?
How does this solve the problem of blowouts in the state championship? I would assume the best 2 teams in the North and South would make it out no matter the seeding... Wouldn't Armwood still play Miami Central?

Aren't the blowouts caused because the FHSAA classifies teams by school size rather than quality of play? Shouldn't a team like Trinity Christian be forced to play at a higher classification and schools like Paxton and Stanton play at a lower classification (despite class size). Wouldn't that make more competitiveness?
 
All won't be fixed when you have 10 super teams in the state. A few will be fixed
  1. You probably won't have teams make the playoffs at 2-8 anymore and hopefully that means 7-3 and 6-4 teams get in
  2. due to seeding there should be more competitive games early on in the playoffs.
  3. Also you will not have those regular season games that "don't count" per-say.

Those are the 3 things off the top of my head that could be fixed by the system... The main thing though is just what it is... Not many people are going to beat those 10 or so super teams.
 
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There was a time when district champs only made the playoffs. But that was when there were fewer classifications and large districts. Not so many playoff games and many districts were determined by tie-breakers meaning sometimes deserving teams would miss the playoffs. Then in 1993 district runner-ups were allowed in and the playoffs expanded. FHSAA first experimented with a wildcard system in 1999-2000 but back then there was only 3 districts per region so again districts were larger and district champs and runner-ups got in, the wildcard spots were for the 7th & 8th spots. The point system was used as a tie-breaker only when two teams of with the same w/l record but didn't play each other. Due to uneven population growth, the FHSAA added 2 more classes at because of the outcry from the smaller schools. The result was small districts with only 3 teams where one can automatically get the runner-up spot by only winning one game. So you have a 1-9 team from a 3-team district in the playoffs while a 7-3 team in the next district that has five or six teams in it staying home.

I don't think anyone contends that a district champ should not be in the playoffs. Its how do you determine the remaining teams. While I'm not totally at odds with the proposed changes, I do think a much better solution would be to make districts a minimum of 4 teams. The biggest objection would be travel in some cases.
 
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How is a #1 seed vs a #8 seed going to be competitive? The whole idea is that isn't supposed to be competitive to allow the #1 seed the easiest route to the championship...

The FHSAA has said 16 or so teams with losing records made the playoffs... there were 96 1st round games... I doubt those 16 were the only reason that a 21 point gap existed. Actually, the gap exists because we classify teams based on size, not on talent.

I can't argue the idea that games won't count now, but I am concerned that games that a team has no control over could determine seeding and potentially playoffs. I can't argue that losing teams won't make the playoffs but I would note that Booker T Washington was 5-5 going into the playoffs this year (not necessarily a dominating team by record), but I doubt people were sitting there saying "They don't have a winning record, they shouldn't be in the playoffs"

But those "Super" teams are located throughout numerous classifications... resulting in little interest in playing them. Wouldn't it be better to move teams up or down based on performance so that good teams keep moving up until they are no longer dominating.
 
Instead of changing the playoffs system maybe FHSAA needs to open their eyes. Why should a public school be in the same district as a private?
Hwy17 said:
There was a time when district champs only made the playoffs. But that was when there were fewer classifications and large districts. Not so many playoff games and many districts were determined by tie-breakers meaning sometimes deserving teams would miss the playoffs. Then in 1993 district runner-ups were allowed in and the playoffs expanded. FHSAA first experimented with a wildcard system in 1999-2000 but back then there was only 3 districts per region so again districts were larger and district champs and runner-ups got in, the wildcard spots were for the 7th & 8th spots. The point system was used as a tie-breaker only when two teams of with the same w/l record but didn't play each other. Due to uneven population growth, the FHSAA added 2 more classes at because of the outcry from the smaller schools. The result was small districts with only 3 teams where one can automatically get the runner-up spot by only winning one game. So you have a 1-9 team from a 3-team district in the playoffs while a 7-3 team in the next district that has five or six teams in it staying home.

I don't think anyone contends that a district champ should not be in the playoffs. Its how do you determine the remaining teams. While I'm not totally at odds with the proposed changes, I do think a much better solution would be to make districts a minimum of 4 teams. The biggest objection would be travel in some cases.
Click to expand...

So they are saying with the points system that 3 teams from one district could make the playoffs?
 
gatorman-uf said:
How is a #1 seed vs a #8 seed going to be competitive? The whole idea is that isn't supposed to be competitive to allow the #1 seed the easiest route to the championship...

The FHSAA has said 16 or so teams with losing records made the playoffs... there were 96 1st round games... I doubt those 16 were the only reason that a 21 point gap existed. Actually, the gap exists because we classify teams based on size, not on talent.

I can't argue the idea that games won't count now, but I am concerned that games that a team has no control over could determine seeding and potentially playoffs. I can't argue that losing teams won't make the playoffs but I would note that Booker T Washington was 5-5 going into the playoffs this year (not necessarily a dominating team by record), but I doubt people were sitting there saying "They don't have a winning record, they shouldn't be in the playoffs"

But those "Super" teams are located throughout numerous classifications... resulting in little interest in playing them. Wouldn't it be better to move teams up or down based on performance so that good teams keep moving up until they are no longer dominating.
Click to expand...


Gatorman: Over the last several years where the first two rounds are determined by district champ vs district runner-up I have seen the match-ups where a 10-0 district champ plays an 8-2 district runner-up, and elsewhere in the bracket a 6-4 plays a 5-5 or better yet, draws that team with a losing record. So what happens is a mismatch in the 3rd round.
 
gatorman-uf said:
Heck, 5 teams from one district could make it in theory (district champ, plus 4 wildcards) in Classes 5A-8A
Click to expand...

Exactly what happened last time around. Actually produced an interesting playoff because it produced 2nd and 3rd round rematches.
 
I don't know the solution but there is a problem when Miami Northwestern's season is over and the 6A Mitchell Mustangs have won their District and "earned" the right to host a playoff game and get blasted by 3 TDs to a Gainesville team that was not even as good as Miami Northwestern.
I don't know if there is a need for wildcard games but it would be nice if there was a way to get quality teams playing in the playoffs. The 10-1 Mitchells and 8-2 Lemon Bays are lowering the quality of first round post-season play.
 
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