Changes to the Playoff System are being proposed and up for vote

[peezy28]

I 1st heard this from Josh Wilson so here is his write up

"
Since this is not a full news story yet and is more of being floated through a committee I would open a thread to discussion on what Frank Beasley, one of the director of athletics for the FHSAA, has proposed for changes to the football system.



Now of course anything is not official right now (as in changes actually happening) and must go through committee and then be officially voted upon by the Board of Directors. It is a process that could take up to two years. Here is a link to the info: http://www.fhsaa.org...agenda/2016.pdf



I will just give a brief run down of what is being discussed around and let you all weigh in on it.



The proposal for smaller schools is to allow them be assigned a classification, but they would play no district schedule, instead the schedule would be controlled by the teams themselves and points would be awarded depending on games won and who they won against.



Here are some bullet points with that.



- Allows teams to control travel cost and competition during the regular season

- SAFETY! You schedule who you want, who you feel best fits your kids and program goals.

- Allows for a true champion to be crowned

- Creates excitement

- Allows Schools to schedule who they want during the regular season

- Allows teams an opportunity to make the playoffs on an equal playing field

- Adds some excitement to the end of season (seeding) (Press conference to announce in FHSAA office)

- Create a seeding committee that will compile raw data to seed

- Makes 8 regular season games count



Smaller classes playoff format would work like this under the proposal discussion



- 4 regions per class

- 8 teams from each region make the playoffs, however in 1A Rural 4 teams in each region would make the playoffs instead..

- 32 teams per class make the playoffs, however in 1A Rural 16 teams in each class would make the playoffs instead.

- 5 rounds, with only 4 rounds in 1A Rural

- No region schedule required

- Teams would schedule their own games



Larger school classifications they would keep the district type formatting (sort of going towards a regional format)



- Unfair for smaller districts to gain entry into the playoffs

- Penalizes a tough district with 3 or more teams that are deserving a playoff berth vs a weaker district who gets two average teams in

- Stops all of the jockeying for district reassignment

- Allows for a true champion to be crowned

- Creates excitement

- Allows teams an opportunity to make the playoffs on an equal playing field

- Adds some excitement to the end of season (seeding) (Press conference to announce in FHSAA office)

- Create a seeding committee that will compile raw data to seed

- Makes 8 regular season games count



There are some concerns with it as in dealing with forfeited games, weather issues, scheduling a full schedule and out-of-state games counting in the mix.



So how would teams make the playoffs? A points system would be the key to all of this.



Each team will receive a points each week based on the following:

- 4 points for a win in your own class or below

- 5 points for a win against a team in a larger class

- 2 points for a loss against a larger class

- 1 point for each of your opponents earned wins (all games played that season through week 11)



Which games count?

- Starting from week 11 and counting back 8 of your games will count for seeding purposes. (Leaves wiggle room for cancellations for weather)



How would ties be broken if it is tied with other schools?

- Win-loss percentage.

- If teams have the same record, the next tiebreaker is how the teams did head-to-head.

- If the tie still can’t be broken, it will come down to number of wins against teams from larger classifications.

- If teams are tied through record, head-to-head and wins against larger schools, it could come down to margin of points over 10 regular-season games, with a maximum of 21 in each. (This would be a capped point system, something very similar that is used in Texas).

- Coin toss



--------------



MY TAKE:



To be honest, I like what I am seeing here, but this won't be the total solution to everything. This will certainly add more excitement to to everything going on towards the playoffs and make the playoffs better and thus keeping the bad teams out of the playoffs.



However, this won't solve the solution of the number of smaller private schools going independent. I don't see a lot of these independent teams coming back into it unless there is ways that the small school powers that dominate and that is part of the problem.



Really the state needs to embrace a two organization system like Alabama (AHSAA, AISA) and Georgia have (GHSA, GISA) and allow the SSAC to represent the smaller schools who want to be a part of their association and still have the opportunities to compete like they seek out.



So what is your thoughts on all of this? Share away and I will share more of my thoughts later on."

http://floridahsfootball.com/forums...ssion-docket-for-football-advisory-committee/

 

[Choctaw_fan]

Sounds like a lot of subjective decisions will be made. When there are no hard and fast rules, someone always gets cheated. It's hard to explain to teenagers who worked so hard to win that their effort meant nothing.

All I can say is the people at FHSAA are so out of touch with reality!

 

[riverrat1961]

Anytime you have a selection committee to decide on who gets in and who they play you are asking for trouble

 

[cameronp81]

Georgia does the power ranking/point system for Class A schools but that's it. If I'm not mistaken the region champ is in automatically. I'll be honest I don't fully understand the FHSAA's reasoning. Why can't they just get rid of three team districts?

 

[riverrat1961]

Georgia does the power ranking/point system for Class A schools but that's it. If I'm not mistaken the region champ is in automatically. I'll be honest I don't fully understand the FHSAA's reasoning. Why can't they just get rid of three team districts?

There is only one dist with 3 teams in 1A and thats Dist 1

 

[peezy28]

There are a couple in each class.

If they can use the point system there should be no reason for a selection committee just hire a statistician lol.

 

[cameronp81]

You're right, which is ridiculous because the next district has six teams.

 

[cameronp81]

I thought the same thing about the committee, whats the need?

 

[huntayo]

The committee is there to double and triple check the points, nothing else- this is designed to put the decision back in the hands of the schools.

Create a seeding committee that will compile raw data to seed

The points system is a way to free schools from being stuck in a district that is less than desirable for many parties.

 

[cameronp81]

So teams will be put into "regions" but not necessarily have to play those teams?

 

[huntayo]

you got it- the regions would be created for the playoffs. Each region would get seeded based on the number of points and they would go at it in the playoffs. the biggest point getter is you opposing teams wins, schedule tough- you get rewarded for it, schedule cupcakes, you will probably not get in.

 

[Larry CuIpepper]

I worked in a state system that was similar to this years ago.

If this were to happen (IT WON'T), you would want to "scrimmage up & schedule up".

Scrimmage up is to schedule 4 to 6 classes above your assigned level your spring game and fall classic (like Madison County HAS to in the regular season) to get yourself prepared for the larger schools that you will play in the regular season.

Schedule up is the same but applies to your regular season schedule with the exception of an locally assigned conference schedule. Not a DISTRICT schedule but a CONFERENCE schedule; >>>> digress to Iverson on practice.

We found in the end that our power rating was higher and in turn we drew lower rated teams in the early rounds and secured home field for 3 rounds in the region. Scheduling up and having success will earn you more power points.

Once the State Playoff began the state used an alternating/rotating home field.

 

[Hwy17]

I like the concept, but disagree with the detail. A point system is good, but the way I see it, as proposed here, why would an 8a team schedule down? Likewise, if I was a small school and wanted to play up, play a weak team up because its 5 points just for beating them. So a 4a school plays a 7a team thats not that good, they get 5 points, plus a point for each of their wins, so if the 7a team was 3-7, that's 8 points. Why would the 4a school play a strong 3a or 1a team for that matter? And as we have seen, some of the powerhouse small schools can beat powerhouse teams from higher classifications. This would also hurt some long standing rivalries. For example, Bartow vs Fort Meade. Its an old rivalry but if I was Bartow this system would be reason to drop Fort Meade because it does little if you win and hurts a lot if you lose.

The way I would do it is award 1 point for each of your opponent's win then add a 1/2 point for playing up a class. I wouldn't reward 2 points for a loss either.

 

[jambun82]

Frank Beasley is a very fair, honest, and thoughtful man, and it is good news that he is involved with this effort. I believe that any change than can be made to the FHSAA playoff system is a very positive step. I think that everybody on this message board agrees that the current format is broken, when there are seven of eight games decided by double digit margins

 

[Captains Morgan]

Scheduling for small schools will be a problem. If you are a good 1-3A school who will play you? You have to go find 10 games on your own because you have no set district games. Larger classification schools don't want to play you because there is no benefit and smaller class schools won't have to. Madison county thought they had trouble scheduling, let this happen and see what takes place. I know that the FHSAA will never reduce the number of classes because they lose money, but that is what really needs to happen. It seems there is an alpha dog or two in every class and that's it. Imagine if you cut it to 6 classes instead of 8?? What about Miami Central vs St Thomas in the Semis, or a Trinity Christian vs Booker T final!! It seems the FHSAA is concerned how to include the 75 small private independent schools and get them in a district. Most of them can't compete anyway so forget them let them join the SSAC and play each other like Ga does. Combine 2A and 3A, then reclassify the top 5 classes into 4. Now you have 6 ultra competitive classes with some parity I would think.

 

[huntayo]

Pretty sure those wheels are in motion Captain Morgan, reclassification is an issue that will be discussed as well as it is on the agenda! Here is one of the hurdles with less classes, as 1A schools do not like playing a school with 400 more kids than them, neither do other class schools, thus trying to keep the cutoff numbers as close as possible.

Now, if the smallest couple classes go to no districts, it shouldnt matter because you play who you want. The cutoff numbers only come into play and would effect your school in the playoffs.

If i am a middle of the road class 4A team i would dang sure schedule trenton, even if i lose i get a point for every one of their wins, if i win i get 4 points plus all of their wins. Trenton wins they get 4 for the win and a bonus point for playing up. This system makes 8 games count all the way through week 11 and creates matchups in the playoffs that should be more desirable.

The largest point getter is your opponents wins, the tougher you schedule the more points you get, the weaker the less points you get. It is a fine line, you need wins but you also need opponent wins.

Nothing is perfect, at least they are trying. Thoughts from an old guy who cares

 

[Captains Morgan]

I agree that lower to middle of the road teams obviously want to keep the classes smaller in numbers. But there is quite a difference in a school with 400 kids playing a school with 900 and a school with 1800 playing a school with 2300. I don't even see how that is comparable. In one case the school is over double in size where the other is 20% larger. Do you see that as the same?? As for the 4A scheduling Trenton or Madison or whoever you still have to explain to your fanbase why you are playing a 1A then God forbid they lose. Folks in the know realize that some small schools can compete with anybody but the fans who gripe and make life hard for coaches have no idea. They see a 1A vs a 5A and think they should win and if they don't blame the coach. Not a headache alot of coaches want, I would imagine.

 

[anon_00zx5879k0jmw]

Once again no regards to private vs public separation!!! BStreak needs to be fired for not bringing this up at his meeting at FHSAA!!!

 

[anon_00zx5879k0jmw]

I'm telling u the schools needs to separate themselves from the FHSAA and do it now then start their on league. This is the only way schools will get fairness!!!!

 

[gatorman-uf]

I don't like it. I think the average fan understands district standings more than they will ever understand power points. Power Points mean you have to root for your opponents to do well an'd as a fan I don't necessarily want to do that. Also Power Points take control out of the team's hands and put it into the type of opponent you faced.

For example, a coach schedules 5 middle of the road teams that his team will be competitive in, 2 "tough" games, and 3 easy games. The team goes 8-2, but the 5 middle of the road team turn out to be pushovers this year, or schedule really hard and their record ends up be 2-8. I like our system of you win and you are in.

I don't think this system will get what they are hoping for. I would rather see teams with success have population added to them (1A-3A exempted) and forced to play up once they have success.

I ran a simulation of Class 7A, Region 1 with the idea that all the games counted (just made it easier to figure things out).
Here are the Top 8 Teams in order.
1. Lincoln (4-6)
2. Columbia (9-1)
3. Bartram Trail (7-3)
4. Buchholz (9-1)
5. Edgewater (7-3)
6. Ocoee (6-4)
7. Atlantic Coast (6-4)
8. Robert E. Lee (7-3)

Some weird things happen 6 of the 8 listed were already the playoff teams (Ocoee and ACHS) being new additions while Chiles and Hagerty dropped. Hagerty beat both Edgewater and Ocoee and still didn't make it.

Oakleaf, an 8-2 team (a team the Laz Index has in the Top 8 of the region) finishes 13.

A winless Creedside team, finishes 1 point of 8th place, tied for 9th. If this really is the best system, we can come up with we are in trouble.

Additionally the fact that Lincoln, a 4-6 team would be the #1 seed is mind blowing. Columbia beat them in the regular season and post-season but this new system would reward Lincoln with the #1 seed.

Make districts bigger by eliminating a classification.

 

[Keepingitrealinsrq]

I 1st heard this from Josh Wilson so here is his write up

"
Since this is not a full news story yet and is more of being floated through a committee I would open a thread to discussion on what Frank Beasley, one of the director of athletics for the FHSAA, has proposed for changes to the football system.



Now of course anything is not official right now (as in changes actually happening) and must go through committee and then be officially voted upon by the Board of Directors. It is a process that could take up to two years. Here is a link to the info: http://www.fhsaa.org...agenda/2016.pdf



I will just give a brief run down of what is being discussed around and let you all weigh in on it.



The proposal for smaller schools is to allow them be assigned a classification, but they would play no district schedule, instead the schedule would be controlled by the teams themselves and points would be awarded depending on games won and who they won against.



Here are some bullet points with that.



- Allows teams to control travel cost and competition during the regular season

- SAFETY! You schedule who you want, who you feel best fits your kids and program goals.

- Allows for a true champion to be crowned

- Creates excitement

- Allows Schools to schedule who they want during the regular season

- Allows teams an opportunity to make the playoffs on an equal playing field

- Adds some excitement to the end of season (seeding) (Press conference to announce in FHSAA office)

- Create a seeding committee that will compile raw data to seed

- Makes 8 regular season games count



Smaller classes playoff format would work like this under the proposal discussion



- 4 regions per class

- 8 teams from each region make the playoffs, however in 1A Rural 4 teams in each region would make the playoffs instead..

- 32 teams per class make the playoffs, however in 1A Rural 16 teams in each class would make the playoffs instead.

- 5 rounds, with only 4 rounds in 1A Rural

- No region schedule required

- Teams would schedule their own games



Larger school classifications they would keep the district type formatting (sort of going towards a regional format)



- Unfair for smaller districts to gain entry into the playoffs

- Penalizes a tough district with 3 or more teams that are deserving a playoff berth vs a weaker district who gets two average teams in

- Stops all of the jockeying for district reassignment

- Allows for a true champion to be crowned

- Creates excitement

- Allows teams an opportunity to make the playoffs on an equal playing field

- Adds some excitement to the end of season (seeding) (Press conference to announce in FHSAA office)

- Create a seeding committee that will compile raw data to seed

- Makes 8 regular season games count



There are some concerns with it as in dealing with forfeited games, weather issues, scheduling a full schedule and out-of-state games counting in the mix.



So how would teams make the playoffs? A points system would be the key to all of this.



Each team will receive a points each week based on the following:

- 4 points for a win in your own class or below

- 5 points for a win against a team in a larger class

- 2 points for a loss against a larger class

- 1 point for each of your opponents earned wins (all games played that season through week 11)



Which games count?

- Starting from week 11 and counting back 8 of your games will count for seeding purposes. (Leaves wiggle room for cancellations for weather)



How would ties be broken if it is tied with other schools?

- Win-loss percentage.

- If teams have the same record, the next tiebreaker is how the teams did head-to-head.

- If the tie still can’t be broken, it will come down to number of wins against teams from larger classifications.

- If teams are tied through record, head-to-head and wins against larger schools, it could come down to margin of points over 10 regular-season games, with a maximum of 21 in each. (This would be a capped point system, something very similar that is used in Texas).

- Coin toss



--------------



MY TAKE:



To be honest, I like what I am seeing here, but this won't be the total solution to everything. This will certainly add more excitement to to everything going on towards the playoffs and make the playoffs better and thus keeping the bad teams out of the playoffs.



However, this won't solve the solution of the number of smaller private schools going independent. I don't see a lot of these independent teams coming back into it unless there is ways that the small school powers that dominate and that is part of the problem.



Really the state needs to embrace a two organization system like Alabama (AHSAA, AISA) and Georgia have (GHSA, GISA) and allow the SSAC to represent the smaller schools who want to be a part of their association and still have the opportunities to compete like they seek out.



So what is your thoughts on all of this? Share away and I will share more of my thoughts later on."

http://floridahsfootball.com/forums...ssion-docket-for-football-advisory-committee/

When are they going to address a level playing field? Who thinks it is fair for STA to be in a class with public schools? There needs to be another option for larger schools as well to play under a different organization. I say every 7A football team play under a different organization until the FHSAA decides not to ignore the fact that STA does not recruit. Does anyone know the number of transfers that they had last year?

 

[gatorman-uf]

Just curious, but how many teams were left out of the playoffs that we would have considered a travesty that they didn't make it this year.

How many teams that made the playoffs that we would consider to a travesty to be in there?

Is it really that high of a number?

Also even though I support larger districts, please remember that larger districts means more required traveling. While the traveling is not a big deal in large cities, the travel does hurt many of your North Central and Panhandle teams.

 

[PJD3883]

Any system that human hands touch is flawed. Right now everything is settled on the field of play.
Why would anyone want to change that?

The system doesn't need adjusting, just modified.

If you separate Private from Public, you have a better opportunity to control travel. You get that
because once you eliminate the private schools, you can reduce the classifications. You won't need 8 classes. You might be able to get by with just 6. You can then tinker with enrollment
sizes to determine classification. The biggest advantage that Private schools have is they can
control their enrollment sizes. There are 3-A private schools that can match many 8-A schools
for talent. You don't think that's not a massive advantage when they go up against a 3-A public
school?

Travel could also be controlled by allowing public schools to play private schools in non-district
games. That ain't a big deal. If a team is looking for a non-district game close by and a private
school is available and agreeable, let 'em play.

Just keep control of how teams are decided for the playoffs on the field. It should be in the
hands of the players and coaches...not a frickin' point system.

When the regular season ends...the Publics go their way and the Privates go there's.

 

[Choctaw_fan]

Yearly, LAZL posts data on how each classification does against others. There are little differences when you look up one or down one classification.

I agree to separate the private schools and decrease the number of classes. Any county can control their schools sizes by modifying the school district lines. Almost every team in the panhandle is 6A now. That's been manipulated to reduce travel costs.