Unbalanced Power-I

[Phac Nam]

...I know, I know...not a real sexy offense. But, that leads into my question...if you're having success running the ball down their throats with something as basic as the unbalanced power-I, why would you ever come out of it?

Are guys so scared of being accused of "going to the well" one too many times...or being called a "one-trick pony"...or do they feel the need to just show they can diversify their offense - even when they don't have to? I'd rather be called any of those things and still be called a "winner" personally.

For me, it's as simple today as it was in 1997 when I was calling the offense...one night (at Wolfson) I ran power right five times in a row, for never less than six yards per carry. After the fifth carry, the QB looked to the sideline, and I yelled at him "What do you THINK we're going to run?! They haven't stopped it yet!"

It used to be that you had to be willing to be boring...I guess maybe that's why the ol' wing-T had a heyday...nowadays, it seems everybody thinks they've got to prove they're the next Gus Malzahn or something...if you can't hit a fastball, I have no reason to throw you a curveball, right?

What am I missing about today's game fellas?

 

[THE TCA DUDE]

It seems like so many teams now a days are trying to be so balanced and spread oriented that they forget or overlook basic concepts about football.

 

[Phac Nam]

I think we're on the same page, THE TCA DUDE...which side of the ball are you on? I'm wondering, if you're a defensive guy, what would give your guys the most fits?

 

[Hwy17]

...I know, I know...not a real sexy offense. But, that leads into my question...if you're having success running the ball down their throats with something as basic as the unbalanced power-I, why would you ever come out of it?

Are guys so scared of being accused of "going to the well" one too many times...or being called a "one-trick pony"...or do they feel the need to just show they can diversify their offense - even when they don't have to? I'd rather be called any of those things and still be called a "winner" personally.

For me, it's as simple today as it was in 1997 when I was calling the offense...one night (at Wolfson) I ran power right five times in a row, for never less than six yards per carry. After the fifth carry, the QB looked to the sideline, and I yelled at him "What do you THINK we're going to run?! They haven't stopped it yet!"

It used to be that you had to be willing to be boring...I guess maybe that's why the ol' wing-T had a heyday...nowadays, it seems everybody thinks they've got to prove they're the next Gus Malzahn or something...if you can't hit a fastball, I have no reason to throw you a curveball, right?

What am I missing about today's game fellas?

SO, there was this coach once who had undefeated regular seasons year after year by playing go ole fashion smash mouth football. Line up in I formation and ram it right down the other teams throat. Never lost a rivalry game to any of the neighboring schools. BUT, come playoff time, never seemed to get too far. SO, all the fans (I was one of them) felt like he was too predictable, too boring. Now he's gone as coach. Fast forward a few years and the coach who is at the same school likes to pass it a little more. BUT, he's 1-2 and lost a couple of rivalry games and many of those same fans (not me, I stay out of it) are mad because they think he would have won the 2 games if he would have just stuck to the run.

My opinion,... fans are never happy and they never seem to account for other team being pretty good too having nothing to do with the loss

 

[Phac Nam]

very wise, Hwy17. Not only can't you make everyone happy, you shouldn't try. But I think you hit on something else...diversity at some level is vitally important. Take Dan Disch, for instance...when he had Ed White playing good (at least on a regional level), his quarterbacks typical stat line was 1-1, 80 yds. 1td/0int. The Commanders would run that wing and pull those guards and grind you up in the first half...by the time your linebackers understood to follow their keys (guards) at the start of the 3rd quarter, he pull them in the opposite direction and run "naked" for 80...then, when you were on your heels, he'd mix in his one pass a game. At this point, your down 30 and it was hard to keep your kids from quitting. In my opinion, it is the ability to be diverse (play call) when things look the same (formation) and to be the same (play call) when things look diverse (formation) that sets the Darlington's and Corky Rogers' and Bill Castle's apart from the crowd...many win with superior athletes...few win through out-coaching as those men do. Not saying they don't have athletes...but they can beat you with Jimmy's and Joe's AND with X's and O's...

 

[blackpopsicle]

It seems like so many teams now a days are trying to be so balanced and spread oriented that they forget or overlook basic concepts about football.

Like having all the jimmys and Joes makes it easy to play against small school competition?

 

[Phac Nam]

now we're tying a couple thoughts together...if we're not careful, we're going to uncover something that the powers-that-be don't want to be uncovered!

#SmallSchoolVictoriesMatter

 

[THE TCA DUDE]

I think we're on the same page, THE TCA DUDE...which side of the ball are you on? I'm wondering, if you're a defensive guy, what would give your guys the most fits?

I am an offensive guy myself. I have no coaching experience at any level, but I do have a love for the game and what I would call a good understanding of offensive concepts. If I was a coach, I would believe very heavily on the run game in my offensive scheme. Trust me, an offense that is balanced is hard to stop and prepare for especially when you have the athletes to run it. With that being said, if the defense is giving up 5 plus yards per run attempt especially in a power formation then I say run it until they stop it and set up them up for a deadly play action pass. In the process of setting them up for the play action pass, you shorten the game and wear down the defense down while giving your defense a rest on the sideline.

 

[Captains Morgan]

Alot of coaches nowadays want to try the next big thing. Everybody is running Auburn's offense right now. First off everybody doesn't have the talent to so that, but hey that's beside the point. Running the ball isn't sexy but it wins games. I've heard fans say they would rather lose 41-42 than win 10-7. Thats how messed up peoples thinking is today and it bleeds into coaching.

 

[Phac Nam]

Seems like a lot of us agree on this subject...I guess, after looking around at the current state of the game, I didn't expect that.

 

[THE TCA DUDE]

The run game is an important aspect to an offense.

 

[blackpopsicle]

Today's game is about finding talent and convincing them to transfer into your program. The established programs can get a lot of players just by being good programs, good players want to go there.
Although having a run only offense can get you wins, you still have to run it and get kids to come to your program. You still have to put up with parents saying that your offense isn't conducive to getting their son a scholarship.
Sometimes its about more than winning.

 

[Phac Nam]

blackpopsicle is dropping some serious knowledge right now!

 

[Dan in Daytona]

Good thread coach ( Phac Nam )

 

[Neutral 0bserver]

... if you're having success running the ball down their throats with something as basic as the unbalanced power-I, why would you ever come out of it?

Nu'Trelle has seen it happen a hundred times. A "D" can't stop something and the playcaller switches up to something radically different - just to diversify - that blows up in his face and may even stop the drive.

True story: After high school, there was no more football or baseball for Nu'Trelle, so he started playing a sport that was very big back then, fast-pitch softball. Playing your position in fastpitch (Nu'Trelle was a catcher) was just about the same as in baseball, but hitting fastpitch is a whole different problem than hitting a baseball.

First, the stitches on a fastpitch softball are white (not red, as on a baseball), so it's just about impossible to pick up the rotation ... and rotation on the ball tells you which way it's going to break (curve). Next, a pitcher in fastpitch is standing 45 feet away from the plate (Little League distance), can make the ball break up, down, in, and out, and throw the thing 90-to-100 mph.

The toughest pitcher Nu'Trelle ever faced was guy named John Evans. He was about 6'7 and had a drop ball that would be belt high ten feet from the plate, then bite and break into the dirt by the time it got to the catcher. When the guy was "on" the pitch was basically unhittable.

But here was his problem, his other pitch (he only threw two) was a rise ball that Nu'Trelle could normally handle with ease. He owned hitters with the drop, but was afraid to throw it 3-4 times in a row because he felt like guys would adjust. Nothing was further from the truth.

Once Nu'Trelle figured this out, he'd go up and sit (wait) on the rise ball. Wouldn't matter if you missed the first two drops by 18 inches each, on the third pitch you were going to see a riser.

Saw the big guy out somewhere years after we both quit playing and he introduced me to his buddies as someone who "owned him". Little did he know that if he wanted to "own" me all he needed to do was keep snapping off those drops that dove straight into the ground. Musta faced the guy 50 times or more and don't remember if I ever even managed to foul one off!

Before walking away that night, Nu'Trelle thought briefly about telling him where his philosophy was flawed, but the "hitter" in Nu'Trelle decided "Naw, let the guy go to his grave thinking he couldn't get me out."

Meanwhile ... back to football.

 

[Phac Nam]

That is a great correlation to the issue at hand...perfect example

 

[Phac Nam]

If I can expand the topic a little bit more - and even tie it in with the "memorable football quotes" thread...John McKay is credited with saying, "You don't beat people with surprise, you beat them with execution"...all you can control is what you do...Phac Nam hates the "they not ready" chant and the "they don't want it" call with a passion...so what if they ARE ready- what if they are every bit as ready as you are? What then?...so what if they DO want it- and what if they want it just as bad as you want it? What then? Victories against opponent who are not at their physical and mental peek are not as fulfilling as beating a team who is at full strength. That's where it ties back in with not looking for a surprise - but rather demanding and instilling execution in your own ranks. By continual excellence in execution, you wear down the resolve of the other team - you break their spirit and their will to fight. You don't wear down the other team's motivation by trickery or by talking about it...you drag them out into deep water with great execution...I go back to Bolles, Lakeland, Apopka, Osceola, and other successful programs...these (and others) seem to be programs that don't count on your weakness, but they always rely on their own strength.

 

[The.Hammer]

Nobody wants to do what's boring. They want to spread everybody else and let the kid in the skirt fling it around. You have to get in that Power I and HAMMER IT.

 

[Phac Nam]

My guess is that you're playing the "hammer" angle, The.Hammer; however, I would say that I don't mean to insinuate that the spread is evil or can't work...obviously, it has been proven successful on various levels. If you have the tools to "hammer" (execution) the spread, then stick with it...probably wouldn't make sense for a spread-tooled team to go unbalanced power-I...you just don't usually see the err in that direction nowadays. It all comes down to knowing what kind of hand you have and then planning to play that hand effectively...proper game planning means you will maximize your chances to win, improper game planning means you will maximize your chances to lose, and failing to game plan or abandoning your game plan out of panic means you will be destroyed.

 

[Hwy17]

If I can expand the topic a little bit more - and even tie it in with the "memorable football quotes" thread...John McKay is credited with saying, "You don't beat people with surprise, you beat them with execution"...all you can control is what you do...Phac Nam hates the "they not ready" chant and the "they don't want it" call with a passion...so what if they ARE ready- what if they are every bit as ready as you are? What then?...so what if they DO want it- and what if they want it just as bad as you want it? What then? Victories against opponent who are not at their physical and mental peek are not as fulfilling as beating a team who is at full strength. That's where it ties back in with not looking for a surprise - but rather demanding and instilling execution in your own ranks. By continual excellence in execution, you wear down the resolve of the other team - you break their spirit and their will to fight. You don't wear down the other team's motivation by trickery or by talking about it...you drag them out into deep water with great execution...I go back to Bolles, Lakeland, Apopka, Osceola, and other successful programs...these (and others) seem to be programs that don't count on your weakness, but they always rely on their own strength.

“The achievements of an organization are the results of the combined effort of each individual.”
“People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society.”
“Individual commitment to a group effort – that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work.”
-- Vince Lombardi

 

[Phac Nam]

Hwy17, is that a show of support?

 

[Hwy17]

Hwy17, is that a show of support?

Well yeah, think about it. Vince Lombardi, on of the greatest coaches of all time, preached execution and teamwork. He is still studied today, yet he ran a very simple offense; everybody knew his plays and what he was going to run, yet they still couldn't stop his teams.

 

[Phac Nam]

Makes perfect sense...made sense then and makes sense today.

 

[Neutral 0bserver]

Well yeah, think about it. Vince Lombardi, on of the greatest coaches of all time, preached execution and teamwork. He is still studied today, yet he ran a very simple offense ...

Picture this one: Lombardi , a guy who was legendary for believing in "team first", magically comes back to life and takes a job coaching at the high school level. A couple of today's over-the-top, obnoxious football parents ask for a meeting and let him know they're not at all happy with his offensive scheme because it doesn't allow their son's talents to be properly showcased.

How do you think THAT meeting would turn out?

 

[Hwy17]

Picture this one: Lombardi , a guy who was legendary for believing in "team first", magically comes back to life and takes a job coaching at the high school level. A couple of today's over-the-top, obnoxious football parents ask for a meeting and let him know they're not at all happy with his offensive scheme because it doesn't allow their son's talents to be properly showcased.

How do you think THAT meeting would turn out?

Lombardi began his career coaching high school football. I would imagine the meeting with the parents ending with him telling them to find another program for their son.

 

[Choctaw_fan]

I can remember watching the Nebraska and Oklahoma running games in the 70's. They were awesome. As a Mizzou fan, they were very frustrating.

Coaches need to get back to basics, especially at the high school level.

 

[anon_00zx5879k0jmw]

Here is the way I see it. You run with what players you have. You can't run any I formation if you don't have a big fullback. If you have small backs your best bet is to run the veer. If your QB can't throw and keeps overthrowing receivers why keep playing the Pistol? You would be better off running the veer because at least you have THREE options.

 

[Hwy17]

The thing about the veer is getting down the qb/rb exchange, learning the reads, etc. Takes a lot of practice and with an inexperienced team, expect a lot of fumbles. I tend to like the double wing/wing T or split back formations.

 

[Phac Nam]

We have identified two extremes...slight, speedy, and skilled = spread...powerful, big, and back heavy = veer/power-I/wing...

So, the next question that begs to be asked...what about teams that are ok at throwing it and ok at passing it...but not great at either? What do you do then? What is the best option for a balanced (no more than 65% pass or throw) offense?

[I think these type of teams are the ones we all see who are trying to force one extreme or the other on their team]

 

[Hwy17]

We have identified two extremes...slight, speedy, and skilled = spread...powerful, big, and back heavy = veer/power-I/wing...

So, the next question that begs to be asked...what about teams that are ok at throwing it and ok at passing it...but not great at either? What do you do then? What is the best option for a balanced (no more than 65% pass or throw) offense?

[I think these type of teams are the ones we all see who are trying to force one extreme or the other on their team]

Not always. I've seen small speedy teams who run the ball very well by running counters and traps out of a number of different formations. Even with a small offensive line.

 

[Phac Nam]

Yes, I was using generalities...can't judge a book by its cover...but the question remains, which offense is most conducive to a balanced offense?

 

[blackpopsicle]

Yes, I was using generalities...can't judge a book by its cover...but the question remains, which offense is most conducive to a balanced offense?

Depends. You talking about formation, style or system?

Going to One back schemes calls for a lot of totes on one guy, but I suppose you could sub a lot. That leaves four receivers, which you could use for jet sweeps. That allows for about half pass, run.

Run and shoot gives you lots of choices as your #2 receivers are close to the middle. Still, it's a four receiver formation.

Pro set I is going to give you excellent run personnel and an ability to throw at your discretion.

All said and done, it really depends on the play caller first and then personnel.

Do you have the next Marino? Then why run all the time out of a full house?

Got six dudes over six feet, all power cleaning 300? All Ball Buster, all the time.

 

[The.Hammer]

Isn't throwing it and passing it the same thing? What are you rambling about Hop Sing?

 

[Phac Nam]

blackpopsicle,
You have hit the nail on the head again, my friend...you've completed the loop on the subject! It doesn't matter what system you line up in...it matters what you do out of that system. It all comes back to where we started - with the coach. Swallow your ego and do what needs to be done to benefit your kids...not to benefit a personal career move.

 

[The.Hammer]

You're like Dr. and Phil all rolled into one.

 

[anon_00zx5879k0jmw]

The thing about the veer is getting down the qb/rb exchange, learning the reads, etc. Takes a lot of practice and with an inexperienced team, expect a lot of fumbles. I tend to like the double wing/wing T or split back formations.

Fumbles happen anyway u play. It's has to do with experience. As we see so far this year fumbles can cause a team to lose games even playing the simple pistol. I also like the split back, the same scheme the 73 Dolphins ran.

 

[Phac Nam]

Hardee, you always seem to be a man of independent opinion...any thoughts on a hybrid-type offense like a spread-wing? One of those hard-to-prepare-for schemes in which, depending on how it's run, you either have 3-4 running backs or 3-4 quarterbacks...that stuff Nevada runs (although that's more towards the Pistol branch of the tree than what I'm talking about)...has always seemed to Phac Nam like that's a multiple-motion, multiple-look offense that allows for such varied personnel that it might be a good fit for your average well-disciplined high school team...

 

[Neutral 0bserver]

Seeing mention of "multiple-motion" reminded Nu'Trelle that most of his all-time favorite wimmens used "multiple motion" to absolute perfection ... and wiff out even bein axsted to do so.

Now ... back to football.

 

[The.Hammer]

Phac Nam - Draw it up

 

[Phac Nam]

Seeing mention of "multiple-motion" reminded Nu'Trelle that most of his all-time favorite wimmens used "multiple motion" to absolute perfection ... and wiff out even bein axsted to do so.

Now ... back to football.

that is actually a pretty good comparison...gives you a lot to look at...and you often miss the warts while waiting for the paint to dry.