New Playoff Format

[gatorman-uf]

It can work in a lot of different ways for promotion/relegation. If we agree to promotion/relegation, we then can talk about the system of doing it.

The easiest way I think is that if we have two different district champs, than you both move up. If you are district champs both years and the team with the next best district record moves up as well. The two teams with the worst district record move down. Now that is the easiest way of doing it, but not my preferred way.

My much more complicated way of doing it, but I think more accurate:
1) Cap student population at 2500 (so even if you have 3000) we are going to register you at 2500.
2) Rank schools according to population (just as FHSAA does now).
3) Pull out 1A and 2A schools as this will not affect them.
4) Add 100 students for every round that you compete in for the past 10 years.
5) Subtract 100 students for every year that you do not compete in the playoffs.
6) 10 years ago, only 10% of the change affects your new population number, 9 years ago 20%, 8 years ago 30%, until last year it is 100%. So if you played in the state championship 10 years ago (that would be a population of 500 * 10% or only 50 students added).
7) Re-rank schools.
8) A school like Trinity Christian would have go from 3A to 6A. A school like Charlotte would move from 6A to 8A (but barely).

In doing this, you are recognizing 1) school size is a dominant factor in playing 2) past success also plays a role in how competitive you could be.

The first year it would be a big shock to the system with teams moving up and down, but after that it would more gradual. A team like Forest Hills would move down from being a large 7A to being a medium 6A, but many of the better 6A teams have move up. Many of the better 5A and 4A teams now are in 6A. Forest Hills should be more competitive. Would Forest Hills ever move down to 3A under the complicated system? No. But it creates a more competitive atmosphere.

 

[gatorman-uf]

So Gatorman, let me ask you this : Right now classification and district assignments are done every two years. Schools typically schedule for two years. How would you determine who moves up or down? Would it be based off the prior two years or just one? What trend would need to be established?

Example: Team A goes 3-7 one year and 9-3 the next and are district champs. Do they move up, or stay the same?
Team B goes 8-3 both years, district champs both years, lose out in round 1 both years. Do they move up or stay the same?
Team C, is an usual powerhouse but has a bad year, goes 6-4, then rebounds and goes 12-1. Do they move up or stay the same?
Team D, usually isn't that good but has their best team in years. Go 11-1, but the next year drops back to 3-8. Do they move up or stay the same?

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First is to admit that promotion/relegation is a good idea.
Second, Since these 4 teams can't be in the same district it means the easiest way of doing it is not available (district champs move up, worst move down). It means it falls to the more complicated way, which means that we would base it off both student size and playoffs.

I can't really answer because we don't know how close schools are to the limits and how every school around them is changing.

 

[Bradentonian]

So basically have a 2500+ category, not cap school pop. I kind of really like the idea. So they would have a real population and a simulated population for classification purposes based on how bad they sucked or did well.

 

[Columbiahighfan1]

It can work in a lot of different ways for promotion/relegation. If we agree to promotion/relegation, we then can talk about the system of doing it.

The easiest way I think is that if we have two different district champs, than you both move up. If you are district champs both years and the team with the next best district record moves up as well. The two teams with the worst district record move down. Now that is the easiest way of doing it, but not my preferred way.

My much more complicated way of doing it, but I think more accurate:
1) Cap student population at 2500 (so even if you have 3000) we are going to register you at 2500.
2) Rank schools according to population (just as FHSAA does now).
3) Pull out 1A and 2A schools as this will not affect them.
4) Add 100 students for every round that you compete in for the past 10 years.
5) Subtract 100 students for every year that you do not compete in the playoffs.
6) 10 years ago, only 10% of the change affects your new population number, 9 years ago 20%, 8 years ago 30%, until last year it is 100%. So if you played in the state championship 10 years ago (that would be a population of 500 * 10% or only 50 students added).
7) Re-rank schools.
8) A school like Trinity Christian would have go from 3A to 6A. A school like Charlotte would move from 6A to 8A (but barely).

In doing this, you are recognizing 1) school size is a dominant factor in playing 2) past success also plays a role in how competitive you could be.

The first year it would be a big shock to the system with teams moving up and down, but after that it would more gradual. A team like Forest Hills would move down from being a large 7A to being a medium 6A, but many of the better 6A teams have move up. Many of the better 5A and 4A teams now are in 6A. Forest Hills should be more competitive. Would Forest Hills ever move down to 3A under the complicated system? No. But it creates a more competitive atmosphere.

What class would Columbia be in?

 

[Hwy17]

Gatorman - That is too dang complicated and nobody would ever go for it. Besides, going back 10 years on schools isn't fair, even if its only a fraction, neither does it do anything to address the real issue, and that is some programs are manipulating their numbers so that they can play in a lower class but get so many transfers that they are the equivalent of an 8a program.

 

[peezy28]

It's all hypothetical I think the current system will be around for atleast 8 years

 

[Hwy17]

Peezy28 - Probably right about that. The whole reason for the change was due to 3 team districts, teams with losing records getting in while 3rd place teams with winning records being left out. Still I preferred the 1999-2000 system where there was 3 districts per region that were much larger. Of course back then we didn't have schools getting large number of athletes transferring into certain schools for the sole purpose of playing football.

 

[gatorman-uf]

Gatorman - That is too dang complicated and nobody would ever go for it. Besides, going back 10 years on schools isn't fair, even if its only a fraction, neither does it do anything to address the real issue, and that is some programs are manipulating their numbers so that they can play in a lower class but get so many transfers that they are the equivalent of an 8a program.

HWY17

If schools are manipulating their population numbers under this hypothetical, they are doing the same under the current system so that shouldn't be an issue to deny it. And it doesn't have to be 10 years, that is MY preferred system that recognizes longevity and allows real number changes. I could as easily do 4 years, but you have to increase the population increase/decrease from 100 students to 150 or 200 students or something like that and use 25/50/75/100 or if 5 years 20/40/60/80/100.

Let's pretend a 3A school is getting all those transfers.
Under the current system, they get to keep all those transfers and stay in 3A forever and win state championship after state championship.
Under my proposed system of promotion/relegation, they get to keep all those transfers, but at least they would move up a classification or more to compete against better competition.
I think my system makes the system more fair. And as I said, the first step is recognizing that promotion/relegation is a good system. The next step is recognizing that we need to create a system that would work.

The beauty of promotion/relegation systems as well is certain schools excel in different team sports, but struggle in others they can move up or down. So for example, Ribault (6A out of 9) and Dillard (7A out of 9) are two dominant girls basketball programs in Florida over the past several years (19 state championships between the two of them). Their volleyball programs on the other hand struggle as none of them have ever made it out of the first round of the playoffs. Dillard made the playoffs this year, but forfeited the game.

So the basketball teams would move up, while the volleyball teams move down.
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Yes it hypothetical. But if we don't put ideas out there than things will always stay the same. The same way that Rural Schools put the idea that they wanted their own Classification. The same way Wrestling Coaches suggested Dual Meet State Champion. If nobody offers ideas, everything stays the same.

I am sure Frank Beasley and other members of the FHSAA patrol these message boards every now and then. It gives them something to think about.

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