Why is Manatee County football so much better than Sarasota County football?
- Thread starter Fla2014
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I think a lot of it is a combination of demographics and priorities. The growth is east/Interstate 75 and that along with Palmetto is where the working class households reside, with families that have school aged kids. Manatee High is an exception due to past success, not really sure if the downtown Bradenton area is aging past the point of families overall. The western portion of Sarasota has, along with the area around Southeast High School, just not as many younger families as there once were. Other than Manatee High, football success has followed the growth pattern of middle income workforce housing. Sarasota and Riverview used to field pretty good teams in the past, but if you look at the demographics for those school districts in that area of the county there has been very little to no growth of younger families east of I-75. The growth went North (Braden River/Lakewood Ranch) and south (Venice/North Port) where due to the constant coaching changes they all school choice to Venice High. Venice also does a good job of mining northern Sarasota for athletes. Sarasota High has built a powerhouse in baseball and has the reputation for that sport, but do to the recession and aging demographics their enrollment has been dropping, but I think has stabilized. Riverview put a lot of emphasis in their IB academic program and that drew a lot of kids that were trying to get into Pineview or transferred for a regular high school experience. That has pushed Riverview to capacity numbers wise, so if you weren't in the IB program, there was no school choice. Those kids are more academically inclined then sports oriented. They did have open enrollment for the first time this year, but there were very few open spots. So to answer your question I think talent due to larger number of players is true. I think the coaching has more experience. On the other hand if you look at baseball it is the complete opposite. Last year Venice won a state title, Sarasota played for a state title or went to the final four and Riverview was one game away from the final four.
Wow two pretty good posts for a couple of guys who don't post a lot - welcome fellas.
I think I can somewhat synopsize what the good professor is trying to say at least for football: Take out the coaching factor and focus on the talent pool and you find that retirement communities usually don't excel as well as communities that actually have a 'hood.
I think I can somewhat synopsize what the good professor is trying to say at least for football: Take out the coaching factor and focus on the talent pool and you find that retirement communities usually don't excel as well as communities that actually have a 'hood.
Then how do you account for Venice, SK? It's a retirement community and doesn't really have a hood.
Not to disagree with you 1fsu1966, economics and demographics certainly are factors, however when a school is strong at sports other than football, it many times has something to do with coaching and getting those athletes to come out of football as well. Example, Kathleen in Lakeland, for years thought of as just a basketball school until they got a coach who realized what potential there was there.
Hwy17 that is true, the schools in Sarasota hired less experienced coaches (excluding Venice). Priorities I guess. Mustang mom, Venice gets the cream of the crop from North Port, so they are in effect drawing top tier players from two high schools. Go to a pop warner youth football game in North Port one Saturday. The stands are filled with parents with their green Venice high shirts on.
and their on
Mom, Sarasota is a watered down retirement community. Venice like Charlotte (which doesn't have much of a hood either - we used to say the only three or four brothers you ever see anywhere in Venice are on the football field) do it the old fashion way: they are schools that have been around since the 20s, have always been the center of their retirement communities, are steeped in tradition and have great, long-stretch coaching - they get the most out of their home grown kids. And in this day in age, other kids from struggling programs want to play there. North Port has had so much turnover in head coaches, its a wonder they have enough to field a team. Port Charlotte on the other hand has a young dynamic coach who played there (against my middle son), who jumped out of the blocks competitively and they're attracting kids too. That's why I said "coaching aside." Get a good coach, let him build a program and get longevity and success will come. I always said if they thought Manatee's staff was good with all those athletes and D-1 players, I'd love to see what our staff could do with just half the athletes they have. They still out athlete us when we beat them in '08 (Carnes, Ace, that 19 year old RB and a few more). The Tarpons had to upset BTW and St Thomas Aquinas and get their first and only Top 10 national ranking for Binky to get 4A Coach of the year in 02.
Mom, Sarasota is a watered down retirement community. Venice like Charlotte (which doesn't have much of a hood either - we used to say the only three or four brothers you ever see anywhere in Venice are on the football field) do it the old fashion way: they are schools that have been around since the 20s, have always been the center of their retirement communities, are steeped in tradition and have great, long-stretch coaching - they get the most out of their home grown kids. And in this day in age, other kids from struggling programs want to play there. North Port has had so much turnover in head coaches, its a wonder they have enough to field a team. Port Charlotte on the other hand has a young dynamic coach who played there (against my middle son), who jumped out of the blocks competitively and they're attracting kids too. That's why I said "coaching aside." Get a good coach, let him build a program and get longevity and success will come. I always said if they thought Manatee's staff was good with all those athletes and D-1 players, I'd love to see what our staff could do with just half the athletes they have. They still out athlete us when we beat them in '08 (Carnes, Ace, that 19 year old RB and a few more). The Tarpons had to upset BTW and St Thomas Aquinas and get their first and only Top 10 national ranking for Binky to get 4A Coach of the year in 02.
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Not sure, I feel bad for those kids who have gone through it, and it makes me even more appreciative my three played in my old program with incredible coaching and stability - wouldn't trade that for a state title on another team. When NP first opened they looked like they were going to build a program, they beat Charlotte within a couple of years of opening with a great running back they had. I watched their early teams play hard till the end even in lopsided games. I didn't follow it that closely until they had that very public spat with Venice and the video taping and stuff. After that it started to decline, it seemed every year a coach was leaving and they were looking for a repacement. I'm sure some of them used it as a stepping stone and got in over their heads, one guy I think never even made the season.
Lemon Bay was great when Messina would find the best O-lineman looking kids in the school - guys with no necks and kankles; work them into a unit and pound the rock. Sometimes that's all they did, but as an old O-lineman I enjoyed watching them.
It's several factors but I think Manatee County has better head coaches that focus on building programs and creating a winning culture. Venice is well coached and disciplined and seem to get the best players from Venice and North Port, and some players from Sarasota. North Port can't keep a coach. Too many pop warner coaches with no coaching experience outside of pop warner trying to coach high school football. All it takes is the right coach and he can build a solid program at any school.
Charlie Cleland during the 70's and 80's put out some good teams for Sarasota HS. Other than that there was never another Sarasota County team that amounted to much until John Spraguge arrived at Riverview. I remember the 1st time I met him was while working the window at the Southgate Post Office, he had come in to pickup some film that was being mailed to him......I found him to loud and obnoxious and never cared for him much after that, but for years he had Riverview on the cusp of winning it all. Other than that I remember only one good Riverview team that had Larry Berkery at QB, WR with the last name of Chesnut and Tony Green that went on to play for Florida. My feeling was that many of the best athletes in Sarasota county were being bused from Newtown to Sarasota and Riverview as Booker remained a 2A school for the longest time. Kind of the same situation with Palmetto HS and the number of students that were forever being bused over the Manatee River into Bradenton.
The thing I noticed right off the bat with Kinnan and winning was that Manatee suddenly had size and superior strength along its entire Offensive and Defensive lines. I attributed that way back then to the college level weight program Kinnan had brought to Manatee.......That just wasn't the case prior to Kinnan.......not with coach Short or coach James prior to him you'd typically see maybe one guy that might stand out but not across the entire line.
I often felt Kinnan lack good judgment at times, with putting players where their skill set would excel. But other than the 92 state title, the thing that stands out about the 83,85, 89, and 2011 state title teams were its strength and size along the offensive and defensive lines. I feel there is sufficient talent for Sarasota to have really good teams, but coaching and/or Peacock recruiting the cream of the crop to Venice might be the reason that doesn't happen
Go Canes Go!
The thing I noticed right off the bat with Kinnan and winning was that Manatee suddenly had size and superior strength along its entire Offensive and Defensive lines. I attributed that way back then to the college level weight program Kinnan had brought to Manatee.......That just wasn't the case prior to Kinnan.......not with coach Short or coach James prior to him you'd typically see maybe one guy that might stand out but not across the entire line.
I often felt Kinnan lack good judgment at times, with putting players where their skill set would excel. But other than the 92 state title, the thing that stands out about the 83,85, 89, and 2011 state title teams were its strength and size along the offensive and defensive lines. I feel there is sufficient talent for Sarasota to have really good teams, but coaching and/or Peacock recruiting the cream of the crop to Venice might be the reason that doesn't happen
Go Canes Go!
